How are Applications, Getting Ready to Start, Etc Going for Everyone?

[PsychApplicant2]

3 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

Nothing wrong with that! There's still a strong possibility this will be me in the next couple months. Just think of the amazing schools you'll have on your list next time around!

This is true!! Thank you!!! ❤️ 

[ColoradoGirl94]

Submitted my first application of the season and I am feeling so much anxiety about taking the first step of many! ?

[Psyche007]

On 7/9/2020 at 2:29 PM, EileanDonan said:

I relate to this so deeply. At this rate, I don't know if I'll ever make it into a program at all, much less definitely by the time I'm 30. Age-related pressure is so real for some people, it feels impossible not to compare yourself to your peers who are well settled into their careers or doctoral programs. No one wants to be the "unsuccessful one".

Even if you don't spend your time wisely while waiting for admission, just living life leaves you seasoned you in a way that a 21-year-old fresh out of undergrad isn't able to be, but in some ways, the younger you are, the easier you time you might have of getting through a programme.

I started my PhD after 40. Having a professional life outside of academia is both beneficial and harmful. I have more real world clinical experience without a Master's degree than the vast majority of my peers (even the licensed clinicians), as well as having other professional experience that gives me skills and abilities I might not otherwise have developed. I'm not worried about instructors. I treat them as equals, because they are. I'm not afraid to ask for what I need or be appropriately assertive. Some respond well and some don't, expecting everyone to passively accept being treated as a child. 

Having a life before academia helps keep me grounded. Academia moves slowly, and while there is sometimes reason for it, other times, there's not. Lots of talking and not enough doing. Vague communication. It's a weird world, full of hierarchies and politics and cults of personality. I don't buy into it, so perhaps I'm not destined to be successful in that area. I'm respectful but I don't 'play the game'. Perhaps the 20-something-year-old-me would be excited and eager to join, be seen as legitimate. Now, I see it as frustrating and posturing. Maybe I'm just deeply cynical about the field, haha. I spent a long time thinking, reading, and working before I set foot in a doctoral programme and I'm not here to join in, I'm here to try and change it. That puts me at odds with most other students. They might think I'm overly negative, but like some of you, I've seen some shit that tells me the way things are is not ok. People need real help and they're not getting it. Instead, they get told 'something is better than nothing'. I doubt that, because that 'something' is a big fat distraction for generations of young mental health professionals.

It's easy to see why psychology has ended up where it is. This article makes some excellent points, regardless of what you may think about Jonathan Shedler.

https://jonathanshedler.com/PDFs/Shedler (2006) Why the scientist-practitioner schism won't go away.pdf

This issues run even deeper than this, but that's a conversation for another day. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Psyche007

[EileanDonan]

21 hours ago, Psyche007 said:

Even if you don't spend your time wisely while waiting for admission, just living life leaves you seasoned you in a way that a 21-year-old fresh out of undergrad isn't able to be, but in some ways, the younger you are, the easier you time you might have of getting through a programme.

I started my PhD after 40. Having a professional life outside of academia is both beneficial and harmful. I have more real world clinical experience without a Master's degree than the vast majority of my peers (even the licensed clinicians), as well as having other professional experience that gives me skills and abilities I might not otherwise have developed. I'm not worried about instructors. I treat them as equals, because they are. I'm not afraid to ask for what I need or be appropriately assertive. Some respond well and some don't, expecting everyone to passively accept being treated as a child. 

Having a life before academia helps keep me grounded. Academia moves slowly, and while there is sometimes reason for it, other times, there's not. Lots of talking and not enough doing. Vague communication. It's a weird world, full of hierarchies and politics and cults of personality. I don't buy into it, so perhaps I'm not destined to be successful in that area. I'm respectful but I don't 'play the game'. Perhaps the 20-something-year-old-me would be excited and eager to join, be seen as legitimate. Now, I see it as frustrating and posturing. Maybe I'm just deeply cynical about the field, haha. I spent a long time thinking, reading, and working before I set foot in a doctoral programme and I'm not here to join in, I'm here to try and change it. That puts me at odds with most other students. They might think I'm overly negative, but like some of you, I've seen some shit that tells me the way things are is not ok. People need real help and they're not getting it. Instead, they get told 'something is better than nothing'. I doubt that, because that 'something' is a big fat distraction for generations of young mental health professionals.

It's easy to see why psychology has ended up where it is. This article makes some excellent points, regardless of what you may think about Jonathan Shedler.

https://jonathanshedler.com/PDFs/Shedler (2006) Why the scientist-practitioner schism won't go away.pdf

This issues run even deeper than this, but that's a conversation for another day. 

I thank you for this thoughtful contribution, I find it meaningful. I also feel that I have a heightened sense of the "real world" now compared to fresh grads, as I've seen and experienced things (including those that one is generally advised not to include on an SOP) that have had a rather sobering impact on my outlook, for better or worse.

I also quite enjoyed the article you included, as it eloquently hit the nail on the head of an issue I've been pondering myself recently; that is, the (ideally!) reciprocal nature of research and clinical practice. While I have no interest in becoming a professor myself, I do hope to maintain a balance of research and clinical work after my PhD. Given that this article is now 14 years old, I wonder how things have changed since its publication? Methinks not very much, although one can hope...but in the meantime, back to my statements...

[Psyche007]

1 hour ago, EileanDonan said:

I thank you for this thoughtful contribution, I find it meaningful. I also feel that I have a heightened sense of the "real world" now compared to fresh grads, as I've seen and experienced things (including those that one is generally advised not to include on an SOP) that have had a rather sobering impact on my outlook, for better or worse.

I also quite enjoyed the article you included, as it eloquently hit the nail on the head of an issue I've been pondering myself recently; that is, the (ideally!) reciprocal nature of research and clinical practice. While I have no interest in becoming a professor myself, I do hope to maintain a balance of research and clinical work after my PhD. Given that this article is now 14 years old, I wonder how things have changed since its publication? Methinks not very much, although one can hope...but in the meantime, back to my statements...

Thank you for the kind words.

I occasionally interact with Shedler on social media and he believes his article is as valid now as it was then. I would agree. The divide between research and practice is amazing.

Generally, I’ve found academic instructors act like their classroom contributions are clinically valid but dislike being challenged with real-world examples or ethical considerations. I approach education as something of a skeptic. I don’t accept something just because some told me so. I have to examine it over time but courses don’t leave room for that.

Goid luck with your SOPs and feel free to DM if you ever want some extra eyes on them.

[Schy]

I've been totally slacking when it comes to applications. I really need to beef up my SOP and update my CV, but I think I need to finalize the people that are writing me a LOR. 1) A past professor and current research advisor. This will be a very strong letter. 2) My past BCBA (who can also speak on my knowledge of behavioral applications since I'm applying to a phd in behavioral science) from a behavior tech job I had last year. This one won't be as strong because she told me she isn't used to writing LOR, but she would talk me up and detail what kind of worker I am. And I KNOW I should have a second faculty member that knows what kind of student I am but I graduated almost 3 years ago and apart from the one I haven't kept in touch with any. I did connect with one on linkedin (i took a class in 2014!!! which was so long ago, but the professor was influential in my life at the time and I know I was a great student.) I sent her my cv after she told me she'd be happy to write me a LOR and I haven't heard from her since. I don't have her email, so I need to make sure I remind her over linkedin and make sure she's still on board with writing me a letter. If she doesn't respond/doesn't want to my only other option is my Office Manager. 

Do you guys think having a second faculty is absolutely necessary? The PhD/researcher I'm applying to works in OBM and I have a feeling having someone that can speak on my skill when working a blue collar industry job may hold high value, but I'm still kind of worried that I NEED a second faculty. 

[Bald Academic]

I'm nervous because most POIs are not replying my emails, even after I sent a kind follow-up ?

[EileanDonan]

49 minutes ago, Fabretti said:

I'm nervous because most POIs are not replying my emails, even after I sent a kind follow-up ?

If it's simply a matter of determining whether the POI is accepting this year, I would just email someone in admissions for the department.

[Bald Academic]

20 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

If it's simply a matter of determining whether the POI is accepting this year, I would just email someone in admissions for the department.

It was more like to show interest in their research and have that first contact. Do you know if the admissions staff have any information on budget cuts etc.?

[EileanDonan]

1 hour ago, Fabretti said:

It was more like to show interest in their research and have that first contact. Do you know if the admissions staff have any information on budget cuts etc.?

I haven't personally had reason to reach out to admissions folks on that sort of thing, but it's possible? If you know for sure that your POIs are still accepting, then I would still go for it anyway; pre-interview communication isn't necessarily indicative of final outcomes anyway.

[SoundofSilence]

On 10/12/2020 at 12:17 AM, Psyche007 said:

Thank you for the kind words.

I occasionally interact with Shedler on social media and he believes his article is as valid now as it was then. I would agree. The divide between research and practice is amazing.

Generally, I’ve found academic instructors act like their classroom contributions are clinically valid but dislike being challenged with real-world examples or ethical considerations. I approach education as something of a skeptic. I don’t accept something just because some told me so. I have to examine it over time but courses don’t leave room for that.

Goid luck with your SOPs and feel free to DM if you ever want some extra eyes on them.

Your points really hit home with me in many ways.

Is there any way we can start a separate, more permanent thread about this, to discuss grad life in general and more hot-button topics in particular?

I'm almost mid30s and I feel so many of these things. Came back to academia after a long absence and things indeed look so different. I still have to apply next year to doctoral programs, so there is that, but I have so many conflicting thoughts regarding my current master's. 

What I really dislike is that sooo many clinical psych labs state "only if you are interested in research you are a fit here", since so many academics haven't really practiced in forever. But, what about people who want decent training in research but still want to practice afterwards? Where should they go? Gaah

And your point about instructors is something that I've been dealing with recently - it's still amazing to me that mature, experienced people still get slighted when you question their "instruction" or when you don't go along with exactly that, being treated like a passive child. 

I realize that most of their students are early 20s new graduates, but still.. In many ways academics appear disconnected from the world out there and it's disconcerting. 

I have similar views on other psych fields, such as I/O. So many organizational psychologists could use applied, actually useful research in their fields, but I/O academics produce research that is not easily applied or way too narrow to be in any way useful. It's disheartening to say the least.

Sorry for the off-topic. 

[EileanDonan]

6 minutes ago, SoundofSilence said:

Your points really hit home with me in many ways.

Is there any way we can start a separate, more permanent thread about this, to discuss grad life in general and more hot-button topics in particular?

...

What I really dislike is that sooo many clinical psych labs state "only if you are interested in research you are a fit here", since so many academics haven't really practiced in forever. But, what about people who want decent training in research but still want to practice afterwards? Where should they go? Gaah

...

I'd like to concur here and and state that I would support a general psych academic/career life thread if others are open to it as well.

I also resonate with the second point as that's exactly where I am. I'm afraid that if I do make it to interviews, will I have to hide my middle ground orientation? I believe that wanting to bridge that gap and have a thorough understanding of both clinically practical and theoretically sound methods is most desirable. I think it's fair to say that if you're going to house your lab in a clinical department, don't be surprised when your potential students want to practice as well!

[Psyche007]

2 hours ago, SoundofSilence said:

Is there any way we can start a separate, more permanent thread about this, to discuss grad life in general and more hot-button topics in particular?

 

1 hour ago, EileanDonan said:

I'd like to concur here and and state that I would support a general psych academic/career life thread if others are open to it as well.

I'd really enjoy and appreciate a thread like this as well. It's quite validating and refreshing to have some of my experiences and reactions reflected. Often, I feel quite isolated and alone, at least in class. I've made friends with senior students who echo my sentiments and urge me to keep my head down and just get through it. I appreciate this advice and recognize the wisdom, but it gets old when you expect to be at a level where a deep and nuanced examination of the subject matter is vital both clinically and academically. 

I've added some colour below but made it small so you can TL;DR it.

As for the middle ground, I made a point to WANT to be that bridge between research and practice on interview day. However, as some may point out, I didn't apply to an R1 school. Sometimes I wonder if my experiences are indicative of an R2, but we are community engaged, so the clinical opportunities aren't lacking. My frustration is really centered around the classes, arguably the least important but most expensive (for me) and taxing part of the process in getting credentialed.

My mentor is really good and a great fit for me in so many ways, so I stand by my choice considering my geographical limitations, but I do wonder what other programmes are like. I know my mentor appreciates the real-world clinical experience I bring to the lab, as he's not practiced clinically since grad school. His focus on research methodology and statistical analysis is exactly what I wanted out of a mentor. He makes a point to bring together what he describes as "a diverse group of really smart people", so I'm very grateful and appreciative to have been brought on board. The lab and my practicum are saving me right now, haha. The politics I alluded to earlier are not in my lab, but I still bump into them. 

How do we create a more permanent thread?

Do we need a 'Miscellaneous' board under 'Grad School Life"?

[Bald Academic]

HELP!

 

A professor just replied to an email saying given my training and skill set, I would be ideal. I don't know how to reply back... what should I write?

[Sigaba]

37 minutes ago, Fabretti said:

HELP!

 

A professor just replied to an email saying given my training and skill set, I would be ideal. I don't know how to reply back... what should I write?

I recommend that you write a short email in which you:

• Thank him for his reply.
• Thank him for the compliment.
• Indicate that you'll submit an application.
• Indicate that you will be honored if you earn the opportunity to work with him.
  • The key with this point is not to indicate anything along the lines of
    • an assumption that you'll be admitted on his say so or
    • a statement that you will commit to the program if you are admitted.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Sigaba
Grammar.

[Sigaba]

39 minutes ago, Fabretti said:

HELP!

 

A professor just replied to an email saying given my training and skill set, I would be ideal. I don't know how to reply back... what should I write?

After replying to the professor, take some time to absorb what the person wrote and how you can draw confidence from the appraisal.

Rather than asking yourself "Am I good enough?" (a question kicked around the GradCafe often), can you ask yourself "How good can I be?"

[Bald Academic]

Thank you! I just replied back! Hope he really meant it!

[Bald Academic]

2 hours ago, Sigaba said:

After replying to the professor, take some time to absorb what the person wrote and how you can draw confidence from the appraisal.

Rather than asking yourself "Am I good enough?" (a question kicked around the GradCafe often), can you ask yourself "How good can I be?"

This is exactly what I was thinking ?. Self-doubt really fuels my anxiety in this process. That email was from a well known professor in the field, so I am a bit confused.

[Dazen]

I finished a rough draft of the general version of my personal statement. Waiting a day or two before I give it another read and start asking people for edits, although I've moved on to the school-specific portions. These will be the death of my sanity. I'm finding it reasonably easy to explain why I have a good research fit with potential mentors, since I spent so much time up front figuring out where I wanted to apply, but am having a hard time differentiating between unique aspects of each program. Anyone have advice for that?

[SocDevMum]

1 hour ago, EmpatheticMastermind said:

but am having a hard time differentiating between unique aspects of each program. Anyone have advice for that?

If you're anything like me (and probably most of us) you probably have a spreadsheet or something that lists all the key details about each program. If not, this would be an excellent time to make one.  Use that to help yourself see the differences between each of them, so you can address the unique pieces in your personal statements. You will want to talk about things like accessibility to the populations you want to work with, internship or funding opportunities, ability to work on specific research projects or topics... leave the personal stuff out, obviously. I mean, I love going to grad school in Miami, but they didn't need to know I wanted to be close to the beach. ?

[SocDevMum]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:56 PM, Schy said:

Do you guys think having a second faculty is absolutely necessary? The PhD/researcher I'm applying to works in OBM and I have a feeling having someone that can speak on my skill when working a blue collar industry job may hold high value, but I'm still kind of worried that I NEED a second faculty. 

Is this a PhD program? Because if it's anything over a Masters, the answer is YES, you need at least two faculty members who can write glowing LORs. A PhD program is all about the research, and has nowhere near as much to do with what you called "blue collar" work. Your work ethic and functional knowledge will help you, but what they really want to know is if you have the aptitude to search literature, critically think about other peoples' works, create your own studies AND have the drive and ability to see it through til the end. It's a completely different skill set than you use on the job. While I think it's fine to use the BCBA you are currently working under as a last reference, your office manager is really not going to be the LOR that gets you into a program. Follow up with the prof you connected with on LinkedIn and see what they have to say. Last resort, check with the first LOR writer and see if he/she has any recommendations of someone you worked with or studied under around the same time that could speak to your abilities.

[EileanDonan]

1 hour ago, EmpatheticMastermind said:

I finished a rough draft of the general version of my personal statement. Waiting a day or two before I give it another read and start asking people for edits, although I've moved on to the school-specific portions. These will be the death of my sanity.

Yes! Still working on finishing this portion myself. I don't know what it is, but I'm either writing absolutely nothing of worth or completely overdoing it and then having to cut down. It's a bit frustrating too since my interests can be approached from a few different perspectives, and my advisor choices reflect that. I don't know how I'm supposed to do all of this with a full-time job too. ?

Also, going by your school list, do you have forensic interests by any chance?

[Dazen]

14 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

Yes! Still working on finishing this portion myself. I don't know what it is, but I'm either writing absolutely nothing of worth or completely overdoing it and then having to cut down. It's a bit frustrating too since my interests can be approached from a few different perspectives, and my advisor choices reflect that. I don't know how I'm supposed to do all of this with a full-time job too. ?

Also, going by your school list, do you have forensic interests by any chance?

I feel that! Having a full time job while applying has been an experience.

Haha yes, I do! Definitely an observable trend there. I'm more specifically interested in the impact of early childhood trauma and mental illness on juvenile delinquency. What about you (since I'm assuming you also have some forensic interests)?

[EileanDonan]

2 hours ago, EmpatheticMastermind said:

I feel that! Having a full time job while applying has been an experience.

Haha yes, I do! Definitely an observable trend there. I'm more specifically interested in the impact of early childhood trauma and mental illness on juvenile delinquency. What about you (since I'm assuming you also have some forensic interests)?

Awesome! There's not really a wide range of school options for folks like us I think. I'm interested in the etiology of psychopathy/antisocial PD, especially within the context of criminality. Some interest in assessments as well. I'm interested in these topics from both neuro and personality perspectives (both is better!). With that said, we probably won't be overlapping much with our PIs, so I guess we can breathe easier there at least haha.

Also a note on differentiating programs for SOP's, have you considered poking around their student handbooks for ideas? Those are pretty detailed.

Edited October 17, 2020 by EileanDonan

[JoePianist]

On 10/7/2020 at 12:54 PM, Fabretti said:

I didn't hear back from the POIs I contacted... it's been two weeks

Don’t waste time applying for them if they never reply