MFA 2021 Freak Out Forum

[NoraEllie]

2 minutes ago, katfude said:

Boston University sculpture just sent out acceptances  They reduce their graduate tuition for art students by half already, and I received a 50% merit scholarship on top of that. 

 

Holy cow! 50% is a huge deal! Congratulations!!!!! 

[8arock]

6 minutes ago, katfude said:

Boston University sculpture just sent out acceptances  They reduce their graduate tuition for art students by half already, and I received a 50% merit scholarship on top of that. 

 

I got accepted too! Congrats on the scholarship! :)

[ruralpaintin]

3 hours ago, theundoing said:

They came from other programs because in the 1970s you didn't need an MFA to teach at an elite institution. I would personally be most interested in attending a fully funded program but I don't want to leave my home in Brooklyn and Rutgers wasn't accepting applicants this year. It is classist because the gallery scene in new york city and LA (and most museums in NYC) are extremely classist and elitist. Not everyone wants to have a LA or NYC gallery career but if you want to pay off a lot of debt you might be forced to (if you can even have one).

Of course you can do lots of things with an MFA but some people do want big gallery careers or want to eventually be in the Whitney Biennial and an overwhelming number of young artists in that part of the "art world" come out of big name schools. Just look up the current artists at Company Gallery, Miguel Abreu, White Columns those that have MFAs from schools in the US attended Columbia, Bard, PAFA, UCLA, Yale.

In the 2019 Whitney Biennial the artists who have MFAs ...someone else already did the research: "Of those who earned an MFA, eight got one from Yale, six from UCLA, four from Columbia, and three from Bard. Other schools include NYU, Hunter, and Stanford. Again, it seems that most of the artists elected to go to schools on the East or West Coast, with a few going to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago" AND "I think it is fair to say that there are no artists in the 2019 Whitney Biennial who live and work in Middle America or what some call the flyover states." This isn't because the work is better at those schools this is because these schools have curators rotating through students' studios on a regular basis.

If someone wants a big gallery career this bootstrap idea is a problem because galleries are incredibly elitist. Some schools that charge big bucks but don't have all the connections are predatory because people think that having an MFA means that it will be possible to show in galleries but how do you compete with a school like Columbia where faculty are on a first name basis with the director of PACE gallery or a curator at the Whitney?

 

2 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

Indeed. You said this very brilliantly and accurately. A lot of the MFA programs in the LA/NYC are able to get the curators, other artists, and critics through the studios physically. It is geography there. Two of the prime exceptions are RISD and Yale which are not in big cities but close by.

Another factor is the level of challenge and incorporation of critical theory into the program. The very top schools are going to have very tough readings and I meant you have to be at the top of your game to know what the hell (or fuck) you are reading. Want an example of readings for a top notch MFA? Here is a sample at Calarts of what you are required to read:

Walter Benjamin, “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”. In: Illuminations.

Hito Steyerl, “In Defense of the Poor Image”. In: The Wretched of the Screen.

Rosalind Krauss, “The Originality of the Avant-Garde: A Postmodernist Repetition”. In: The Originality of the Avant-Garde and Other Modernist Myths.

or

Richard Shusterman, Self-styling after the end of Art and Self as Art

Luciano Floridi, The Informational Nature of Personal Identity

These are not just easy texts to gloss over or skim. You will have to be at the top of your game to understand these oft difficult critical texts as well. And these so-called elitist MFA programs are teaching artists to be critical problem solvers and not just folks who pump out artworks without any context.

Plus you are going to be networking consistently with those who are tied to the NYC/LA museum systems as well.

The point is as an incoming MFA student you have choices. You can do whatever you wish whether teach, enter a huge gallery, or just work in a studio at a local gallery. But consistently a lot of folks want to apply to the top ranked programs and there is a huge reason for that. This pattern is not accidental.

My biggest issue that I am seeing with these comments is still persisting, and that is y'all are down playing the credibility of other programs that exist beyond NYC/LA/Chicago. To bring in the situation of the 2019 Whitney Biennial, you also gotta let people know about the criticism it received because midwestern artists were not included or that only individuals coming from certain programs were represented. It was a huge debate, and ultimately, while the show was still great, did not fully encompass art-making in America. People who didn't go through these programs are still getting shows, residencies, grants, etc. There is so much more to art-making than where ever you went into debt to be at. These programs which y'all are claiming don't have connections (inaccurate) or resources to get individuals where they want to be are actually doing just that, the same as other places. 

What I hope others on this forum will take away from this is that you don't have to go to specific programs in order to be successful. Not everyone coming out of the top 10 institutions is making the best work and some of those schools are factories for creating people to pump out "just decent" work for some gallery representation. They don't take all their students places with 'em. Not everyone is their shining prize. The "art world" is a lot more than the top gallery spaces, and people have the ability to change that for the better. Let's not continue systems that don't support the common interest, okay? ?

And before y'all make a list of readings from CalArts, remember that other institutions have similar structures and access to these readings is universal in academia. They ain't the only ones havin' people read...really interesting of ya to assume that though. I read these in undergrad (Krauss is a personal favorite, have you read "sculpture in the expanded form"? You can connect it to painting theory really well). I can play art theory academic too ? 

Too those of you going to state programs or anywhere outside of the NYC/LA/Chi scene, you're doing just as great. I'm right there with yah.

 

[katfude]

Just now, lizavetar96 said:

This is fantabulous!!!! Gosh, you should be so so proud. And I think Boston is a beautiful city too. 
do you think you will accept ?

Thank you!!!!! I'm really happy about it! I can definitely manage finding enough outside scholarships to cover the rest of tuition so it makes the idea of moving to Boston somewhat more affordable. This is my first acceptance and I had a few more interviews (from funded programs), so I am definitely excited to at least have some security that I will be attending school in the fall :')

[Artist99]

12 minutes ago, katfude said:

Thank you!!!!! I'm really happy about it! I can definitely manage finding enough outside scholarships to cover the rest of tuition so it makes the idea of moving to Boston somewhat more affordable. This is my first acceptance and I had a few more interviews (from funded programs), so I am definitely excited to at least have some security that I will be attending school in the fall :')

Congratulations!!!! Boston is a fabulous city and BU is an amazing school! ?

[Artist99]

I graduated from BU with a BFA in sculpture! Let me know if you have any questions! 

[katfude]

27 minutes ago, 8arock said:

I got accepted too! Congrats on the scholarship!

Congratulations!!! That is so exciting, I'm thrilled for you

[SocialKonstruct]

13 minutes ago, Artist99 said:

Congratulations!!!! Boston is a fabulous city and BU is an amazing school! ?

Woohoo. I like Boston quite a bit as a Brooklynite and don't forget to check out Chinatown there. Some of the best Chinese meals I ever had I wandering around that area.

[theundoing]

1 hour ago, everyonelikesbubbles said:

As prospective MFA students and/or recent BFA grads, we represent the next generation of artists. It’s our responsibility then to reconsider existing hierarchies and ideas of merit—and stay with me—imagine an art world without the need for MFAs. The discourse here about alleged top schools is oppressive, disheartening and frankly boring. It’s also very American to give value to rankings of dubious quality.

Some of us here will be spending $100,000+ on programs like Columbia—which is great—but we should be careful about enforcing the logic of our choices to others. The sunk cost principle would dictate that those who get a prestigious MFA would naturally re-enforce the system on others to justify the cost and labor, but I think we should be able to see past that.

I’ll be going to a “top school” this Fall but its value is really about my practice and how I can utilize the school’s resources. I mean, look at any good mid-tier gallery (which feed into the blue chip galleries once sales are proven) in NY and LA and you will see plenty of people from schools outside of the top 10 (US News has no idea about the art world) and lots of people without MFAs, too. 

Art schools don’t make their artists hot, artists make their art schools hot. So don’t put so much pressure on yourself or others about this myth of a top school.

I think we’re all trying to navigate our interests, faculty, price, where we’d like to live, and perceived prestige as we look at our next steps, but instead of using received wisdom, imagine your own path instead of relying on what has worked for others. Get in where you fit in, et al.

I went to public school my whole life and did private school for the first time for college --just graduated from Columbia. For me, it isn't boring. I was really in the dark about how elitism in education works. Attending Columbia was eye opening for me. The opportunities frankly handed to those attending elite institutions was truly shocking to me. I hope it changes but everything I learned at Columbia (from MFAs and from profs ) doesnt make me very confident. It is oppressive but it is also oppressive to not discuss these issues. I hope things change.

Edited March 8, 2021 by theundoing

[katkat]

3 hours ago, yesterday100 said:

Anyone hear from UCSD post interview? 

I feel like we will definitely hear back this week but that’s just a guess! Still waiting.

[katkat]

Accepted into CalArts this morning!

[__________]

2 minutes ago, katkat said:

Accepted into CalArts this morning!

I got accepted as well! ?? Did they mention anything about funding? 

[slickjaketheruler]

2 hours ago, katfude said:

Boston University sculpture just sent out acceptances  They reduce their graduate tuition for art students by half already, and I received a 50% merit scholarship on top of that. 

 

Congrats!!!

[Killerdonuts]

I would like to add that the connections that MFA students get are top tier schools like Yale or Columbia are not always the kind of connections that best serve many artists' practices. For example, there are a lot of artists working in interdisciplinary approaches using themes related to race, ethnicity, gender / gender expression, disability, or sexuality. Having access to professionals (as faculty, or member of the university's larger art network) is one huge reason to get an MFA. I applied only to two schools - Temple (Tyler) and Concordia. I chose those programs because on top of relly liking the MFA faculty and city, those universities also have some sort of disability studies program, which is central to my developing art practice. Yale or Columbia don't have access to these connections and are not engaging in this theory within the university, so the connections those program provide are of no interest to me. My art practice would not thrive in a program that does not engage with the theory and/or themes which I am exploring. I needed to apply to universities where I could access professionals outside of the MFA program, in addition to Arts faculty, since there are literally no MFA faculty working on the themes I'm explore at any program that fit my other criteria. I know there are other artists who are in similar situations, and need a interdisciplinary approach to their MFA practice.

[joeyjoejoeshabbadoo]

2 hours ago, katfude said:

Boston University sculpture just sent out acceptances  They reduce their graduate tuition for art students by half already, and I received a 50% merit scholarship on top of that. 

 

HUGE congrats!! amazing that you got such a generous offer, you must be very skilled!

of course, this makes me sweaty wondering about when BU Painting will send letters
 

[katkat]

25 minutes ago, __________ said:

I got accepted as well! ?? Did they mention anything about funding? 

Congrats! No! Which makes me worried! If you hear anything I’d love to know!

[hello this is]

anyone apply to Carnegie? / anyone hear back yet from Carnegie post interview??

[__________]

6 minutes ago, katkat said:

Congrats! No! Which makes me worried! If you hear anything I’d love to know!

Yes congrats to you too! Great news! 
 

I know same here! I hope they send those packages out separately? ill keep u updated 

[katkat]

5 minutes ago, __________ said:

Yes congrats to you too! Great news! 
 

I know same here! I hope they send those packages out separately? ill keep u updated 

Yeah maybe? I will too if I hear anything!

[hsag]

13 minutes ago, katkat said:

Congrats! No! Which makes me worried! If you hear anything I’d love to know!

 

5 minutes ago, __________ said:

Yes congrats to you too! Great news! 
 

I know same here! I hope they send those packages out separately? ill keep u updated 

Congrats! I was also admitted and I'm wondering the same thing as both of you. I guess if there's any funding they'll let us know before we need to make the decision, right? also if there's no funding they should let us know as well, I guess (?)

[katkat]

2 minutes ago, hsag said:

 

Congrats! I was also admitted and I'm wondering the same thing as both of you. I guess if there's any funding they'll let us know before we need to make the decision, right? also if there's no funding they should let us know as well, I guess (?)

Congrats to you too! And agreed, this email was pretty vague so I’m hoping there is some more follow up. If not I will email in the next couple of days to ask!

[SocialKonstruct]

23 minutes ago, __________ said:

Yes congrats to you too! Great news! 
 

I know same here! I hope they send those packages out separately? ill keep u updated 

Grats to all of the CMU acceptances. I actually got a sticker from them and put it on one of my laptops. Very awesome place. Pittsburgh I have never been to so I can't tell you what it's like over there.

[lizavetar96]

Just had USC interview. 
it was indeed 15 minutes, short and sweet, I think I did really well. 
questions they asked: 

who I am and what I am working on right now?

why USC?

More questions directly related to my practice. 

i had time to ask one question  

 

[-----------]

4 hours ago, slickjaketheruler said:

For everyone that did get anywhere in the process (whether you are going or deciding not to or even just interviewed), just remember to be kind and proud to yourself for making it that far. Treat yourself to some pizza, you deserve it!

FUCKING-A, MAN! I love this, and I love you for saying it. And from an older applicant with my own teenage daughter (hopefully applying to grad in a few years), it is great to see. KEEP EACH OTHER POSITIVE!  

[snipsnapsnout]

On 3/6/2021 at 4:38 PM, feralpugface said:

Hey all,

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Anyone else get into MassArt for photo? I applied because I love Barbara Bosworth's work (but realized during the interview that she actually retired recently, whoops). Financially, it's a huge stretch for me. I definitely regret not applying to more programs (specifically CalArts w/ Jo Ann Callis, another big inspiration). This year was my first cycle, so I was just testing the waters. 

If anyone has any anecdotal info, please pass it along!

 

On 3/6/2021 at 4:56 PM, feralpugface said:

As it stands, I'll likely defer and apply to a greater pool of schools in the fall -- CalArts, ICP (for Justine Kurland), UNM, maybe Yale (why not). I suppose it's just good to know that my portfolio is competitive. I'd still really like to hear from anyone else considering MassArt.

Hi there,

I was accepted into the Film/Video program at MassArt. Originally I applied there as a safety/regional school, but I really enjoyed my interview with them and have been offered a bit of a scholarship, so I'm very seriously considering it. I've also been accepted into the FVNMA program at SAIC, and waiting on decisions from three other schools.

Regarding costs, I think you will find that MassArt, as a public art school, is very competitive at $48,000 tuition for an MFA. CalArts is something like $159,000, by comparison, and offers very little funding. Do you expect to be eligible to work as a TA or RA? In my case, I expect that would contribute another $15K or so. Do the other schools you're considering have promising funding options?

Here are my thoughts while I'm deliberating, in case they're relevant to you: Very much a complex personal decision figuring out the balance of cost and resources, and it's impossible to really compare programs until you know what your offers are. MassArt does not have the name recognition of CalArts/ICP/Yale (in your case) or SAIC (in my case), but I think there can be advantages to that, too. My experience with MassArt has been way more personable so far, whereas I have been a little put off by the detached elitism of many of the more reputable art schools. But yes, names sometimes matter, and of course there are often greater facilities/names at these schools. I just question if they matter $100,000 much. It's hard to reconcile the ethics of an art school charging that much, knowing that most artists do not end up with high income careers. I applied to SAIC in the off-chance they offered me generous funding (still waiting)... I actually wish I could just put on my CV "Accepted into SAIC" and call it a day!

For your situation... If you think you might be even more competitive next year, you're not in a rush, and not in love with MassArt, then you might as well add some dream schools and apply again for next year. I would also think about what your goals are for after the program, and where you want to end up. And consider the resources related to your practice that exist in the region outside of the school. I very much plan to stay in the Northeast, know of a few very cool film communities in the Boston area, so that's a few more points for MassArt for me.

By the way, I lived in New Mexico for four years, and had friends at UNM in fine arts and film. I've been in the photo department once to process motion picture film, they have a wonderful lab and set-up. If you have any questions about Albuquerque, I might be able to help!