Quit Playing Games (With My Heart) / Projected Rejections

[TaliaTee]

16 minutes ago, punctilious said:

Anyone else get the extensive email trying to convince people of how great Chicago's MAPH program is? Ugh.

I did as well! No amount of praise for the program can convince me to take out that amount of money in loans for a 9-month program. (Especially considering I know someone who graduated from the program and said, while fantastic, it isn’t worth the debt.)

[FreakyFoucault]

9 minutes ago, TaliaTee said:

I did as well! No amount of praise for the program can convince me to take out that amount of money in loans for a 9-month program. (Especially considering I know someone who graduated from the program and said, while fantastic, it isn’t worth the debt.)

I could be entirely wrong here, but 9 months also seems pretty short for taking classwork and producing a solid thesis to present to PhD programs (if one hopes to take that route). I don't have an MA, though, so I might be misjudging the time frame. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by FreakyFoucault

[TaliaTee]

17 minutes ago, FreakyFoucault said:

I could be entirely wrong here, but 9 months also seems pretty short for taking classwork and producing a solid thesis to present to PhD programs (if one hopes to take that route). I don't have an MA, though, so I might be misjudging the time frame. 

It really is! I got so many texts from said friend last year about how unbelievably stressful the program was for him because it was shoving 18 months worth of work and research into half that. He struggled a lot with anxiety and insomnia as a result of the workload (although he definitely had anxiety prior); it takes a special kind of person to take on that workload and not struggle with it. The thesis he wrote was only 20 pages, though; I’m not sure how long Masters theses typically are, but I know that that’s shorter than my undergrad thesis was!

Another downside is that you aren’t in the program long enough to form strong bonds with professors. He reached out to one of his language professors to write him a letter of recommendation for PhD applications, and she told him, “I only had you in class for one semester, so I can’t really attest to how you’d handle a PhD program.”

Which isn’t to say that the program is terrible or that everyone has that same experience! But after hearing how stressful it was and the toll it took on him, I’ll definitely be passing on it.

Edited February 8, 2018 by TaliaTee

[FreakyFoucault]

8 minutes ago, TaliaTee said:

“I only had you in class for one semester, so I can’t really attest to how you’d handle a PhD program.”

Damn! I'd want my money back. 

In addition to finishing your research and coursework in that limited time frame, you'd also need to juggle your PhD apps for the next cycle (assuming you wanted to go right away), which, as we all know well, is a job unto itself! 

I agree -- I'm sure there are people who'd jibe well with the program, but I don't think I'd be one of them. So again, Bye Felicia! 

Edited February 8, 2018 by FreakyFoucault

[la_mod]

46 minutes ago, FreakyFoucault said:

I could be entirely wrong here, but 9 months also seems pretty short for taking classwork and producing a solid thesis to present to PhD programs (if one hopes to take that route). I don't have an MA, though, so I might be misjudging the time frame. 

I dunno, that’s how long most Canadian MAs are, and they have pretty solid placements in PhD programs. UBC / Toronto is FAR less expensive though...

[FreakyFoucault]

4 minutes ago, la_mod said:

I dunno, that’s how long most Canadian MAs are, and they have pretty solid placements in PhD programs. UBC / Toronto is FAR less expensive though...

Thanks for the added perspective, @la_mod! I suppose there wouldn't be much time for lolly-gagging or tom-foolery in those programs. Which probably explains why I don't have an M.A.  

[la_mod]

5 minutes ago, jpbends said:

Typically how many courses are in those programs though? Chicago says it's an 8-course MA, so 4 courses each semester on top of writing a thesis sounds incredibly intensive with no kind of guarantee (for lack of a better word) of placement in a PhD afterwards....

It’s 4-5 per semester plus a thesis I believe. It depends. And yes, it is intensive, but there’s no guaranteed PhD with any other MA either. 

[menalta17]

On 2/6/2018 at 4:41 PM, la_mod said:

Are you shut out?  Are you waiting on any more?

Sort of. I haven't heard from all schools but seeing interviews have been had weeks ago, I've assumed it's a no. I did get waitlisted but once again, I'm just going to assume it's a no since I've heard nothing from them after their interviews. So yea, I guess you can say I've been shut out. Sucks but...hey thats life :/

[E. Coronaria]

1 hour ago, TaliaTee said:

There are University of Oregon and Vanderbilt acceptances on the page now. When should I get worried?

(Also, only mildly annoyed at the use of “University of Vanderbilt.” ?)

I’m not sure I would worry just yet! Oregon mde me an offer, but maybe they do offers by area? The letter was very personalized, it listed my research interests and what about my application interested them.  It didn’t look like many went out today. For reference, I’m 19th century American lit. Good luck! It’s not over until April 15!

[mk-8]

I think there are some older threads about Chicago MAPH, and while I know absolutely nothing about it, it's always rubbed me the wrong way. 

[Ufffdaaa]

Seriously, Purdue... "Quit playin' games with my heart" 

[Not officially rejected because of their rolling acceptance process, but I've sort of written it off at this point]

[FreakyFoucault]

4 minutes ago, Wooshkuh said:

Seriously, Purdue... "Quit playin' games with my heart" 

YIKES

[TaliaTee]

23 minutes ago, Elle Coronaria said:

I’m not sure I would worry just yet! Oregon mde me an offer, but maybe they do offers by area? The letter was very personalized, it listed my research interests and what about my application interested them.  It didn’t look like many went out today. For reference, I’m 19th century American lit. Good luck! It’s not over until April 15!

Awesome, thanks so much! I’m Post-45 American Lit and Gender & Sexuality Studies.

And congratulations!!! It seems like an amazing school, so I’m super excited for you! 

[mk-8]

13 minutes ago, Wooshkuh said:

Seriously, Purdue... "Quit playin' games with my heart" 

[Not officially rejected because of their rolling acceptance process, but I've sort of written it off at this point]

haha, that's too funny. and don't write it off yet!

[unicornsarereal]

13 minutes ago, Wooshkuh said:

Seriously, Purdue... "Quit playin' games with my heart" 

[Not officially rejected because of their rolling acceptance process, but I've sort of written it off at this point]

That is CRUEL. I thought i had it bad because NYU's been advertising in my gmail.

[punctilious]

8 minutes ago, TaliaTee said:

Awesome, thanks so much! I’m Post-45 American Lit and Gender & Sexuality Studies.

And congratulations!!! It seems like an amazing school, so I’m super excited for you! 

Oh hey fellow post-45 Americanist! By fellow I mean fellow to my husband, I know nothing. I’m curious to know which schools you applied to!

[TaliaTee]

55 minutes ago, punctilious said:

Oh hey fellow post-45 Americanist! By fellow I mean fellow to my husband, I know nothing. I’m curious to know which schools you applied to!

Shoutout to your husband! I clearly appreciate his interests, haha. What are you studying/planning to study?

Besides the two I mentioned, I applied to UChicago, Northwestern, UMich, OSU, UPenn, Brown, UIC, and Colorado Boulder. I tried to find places that had strong faculty in both areas that I’d be delighted to work with!

[punctilious]

3 minutes ago, TaliaTee said:

Shoutout to your husband! I clearly appreciate his interests, haha. What are you studying/planning to study?

Besides the two I mentioned, I applied to UChicago, Northwestern, UMich, OSU, UPenn, Brown, UIC, and Colorado Boulder. I tried to find places that had strong faculty in both areas that I’d be delighted to work with!

I'm in communications for a national non-profit, specifically visual communications/graphic design, although my educational background is in political science and Russian/East European studies. So pretty unrelated. I've just been super involved throughout his whole application process, and love hanging out with all of you lit folk on here!

That's an awesome list of schools! We also applied to Chicago, Brown, and Colorado! Chicago was a bust but we have hope for the other two! Good luck to you.  

[TaliaTee]

9 minutes ago, punctilious said:

I'm in communications for a national non-profit, specifically visual communications/graphic design, although my educational background is in political science and Russian/East European studies. So pretty unrelated. I've just been super involved throughout his whole application process, and love hanging out with all of you lit folk on here!

That's an awesome list of schools! We also applied to Chicago, Brown, and Colorado! Chicago was a bust but we have hope for the other two! Good luck to you.  

Wow, all of that sounds amazing! As an Eastern European, I dig that area of study!! And this really is an awesome place, isn’t it? I’m glad you’ve been able to get involved, too!

I was also sadly rejected from UChicago, but I’m staying hopeful for the others, too! Hoping for the best for you guys!!  

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

2 hours ago, jpbends said:

The Chicago MAPH has left a really bad taste in my mouth since they told me they forwarded my application. I did some preliminary research on it and after reading that email, I wasn't convinced of anything. It sounds like a glorified writing sample workshop, honestly, and even if it is as good as they say, nine months for an MA doesn't sound like a good enough amount of time to do anything. If I already had a piece of writing I thought was substantially good, then nine months of strictly research and revision would make it good enough for a writing sample, but juggling that with four to five courses a semester? And paying to do it? Not great. It would be different if this were a funded program, but I'm not out here to take $50k+ in additional loans for what may very well be a terminal MA that doesn't take me anywhere.

Real late to the party re: the MAPH but, as someone who did an unfunded MA, the duration of the MAPH program is arguably (very) concerning.

There are 1,000+ good reasons not to do an unfunded MA - I fully understand many of them having now experienced one. There are 1,000,000,000 reasons not to do an unfunded MA that lasts 2 semesters and is rigorous in coursework. 

Going into debt for what is two blinks of an eye in the academic world is high-risk. Doable? Sure, I had a peer who did the MAPH and (after taking a year off) got into several top 10 PhD programs. But, as @la_mod correctly points out, no MA program, no matter how fancy, guarantees anything - I had no offers when I applied during my MA and it was devastating.

I did, of course, have debt. Great. Yes. Love it. *knuckles turn white*

However, I also had two years of grad school under my belt and 3 reputable professors who remembered me when I emailed them a year and half after graduation (our MA was small - 12 people - so connections were easily made and grown over those 2 years.)

Since I didn't do the MAPH, I can't prove anything about it but I really don't know if, had my MA been 9 months, my professors would have ever remembered my name much less spent months helping me revise the WS and SOP, and (now) with PhD decisions. 

All to say, don't do debt. If you do debt, do not pay for a name and a whirlwind tour - pay for time and intellectual growth and thoughtful advisers and professional connections that will last beyond the time you're there, as all of these things just might - MIGHT - get you into a PhD. And only do that if you've got a financial plan that works.

Moreover, I have a friend who did a funded MA from a "no name" school who ended up at UPenn, so - not to hate on the unfunded MA people since I'm one of you - but, like, there's a lot of options out there .... 

Moving on from this rant. 

1 hour ago, Wooshkuh said:

Seriously, Purdue... "Quit playin' games with my heart" 

[Not officially rejected because of their rolling acceptance process, but I've sort of written it off at this point]

I'm gonna yell "BOooOOOO" at my computer for the rest of the week. This is too much. 

[FreakyFoucault]

12 minutes ago, a_sort_of_fractious_angel said:

Real late to the party re: the MAPH but, as someone who did an unfunded MA, the duration of the MAPH program is arguably (very) concerning.

There are 1,000+ good reasons not to do an unfunded MA - I fully understand many of them having now experienced one. There are 1,000,000,000 reasons not to do an unfunded MA that lasts 2 semesters and is rigorous in coursework. 

Going into debt for what is two blinks of an eye in the academic world is high-risk. Doable? Sure, I had a peer who did the MAPH and (after taking a year off) got into several top 10 PhD programs. But, as @la_mod correctly points out, no MA program, no matter how fancy, guarantees anything - I had no offers when I applied during my MA and it was devastating.

I did, of course, have debt. Great. Yes. Love it. *knuckles turn white*

However, I also had two years of grad school under my belt and 3 reputable professors who remembered me when I emailed them a year and half after graduation (our MA was small - 12 people - so connections were easily made and grown over those 2 years.)

Since I didn't do the MAPH, I can't prove anything about it but I really don't know if, had my MA been 9 months, my professors would have ever remembered my name much less spent months helping me revise the WS and SOP, and (now) with PhD decisions. 

All to say, don't do debt. If you do debt, do not pay for a name and a whirlwind tour - pay for time and intellectual growth and thoughtful advisers and professional connections that will last beyond the time you're there, as all of these things just might - MIGHT - get you into a PhD. And only do that if you've got a financial plan that works.

Moreover, I have a friend who did a funded MA from a "no name" school who ended up at UPenn, so - not to hate on the unfunded MA people since I'm one of you - but, like, there's a lot of options out there .... 

Moving on from this rant. 

[Note to self: upvote tomorrow once the stock is replenished]

[la_mod]

1 hour ago, a_sort_of_fractious_angel said:

Moreover, I have a friend who did a funded MA from a "no name" school who ended up at UPenn, so - not to hate on the unfunded MA people since I'm one of you - but, like, there's a lot of options out there ....

I wish I would have looked into more funded MA options, tbh. However, I’m also curious about what y’all think about school prestige. I had professors from my (not very well-ranked) undergrad institution tell me that I pretty much needed to distance myself from the name of my school by way of an MA. There are a few people who got their MAs at my univeristy last year who were accepted into UCR, OSU, and Wisconsin, so maybe times are changing, but I’m really wondering what options we *do* have. 

I don’t want to pay for an MA. It’s expensive and risky and I’m not sure it’s worth it. BUT. Is the best option then to just already be a great student at a great undergrad institution? 

I guess what I’m trying to get at is this: I feel like academia really benefits those with the means to “make connections” at expensive schools, and I’m not sure how any of us can break that cycle. 

EDIT to add: also. I don’t want this to come across like I’m defending MAPH, because I’m not. I think it seems fishy. Not because it’s nine months is too short (as I stated before, I’m all for short terminal MAs in Canada when the cohort is small etc etc), but because it’s so expensive. More so, I’m wondering: what can I / we do besides getting an MA to make ourselves “more competitive” applicants? I know this is turning into a rant and is partially fueled by a comment implying that there’s no shame in giving up if I don’t get in this round, but like. Idk. I’m annoyed with this process and feel like it’s rigged against a lot of the people I’ve met who also want to go into academia.

Edited February 8, 2018 by la_mod
More rambling

[Pezpoet]

12 minutes ago, la_mod said:

I wish I would have looked into more funded MA options, tbh. However, I’m also curious about what y’all think about school prestige. I had professors from my (not very well-ranked) undergrad institution tell me that I pretty much needed to distance myself from the name of my school by way of an MA. There are a few people who got their MAs at my univeristy last year who were accepted into UCR, OSU, and Wisconsin, so maybe times are changing, but I’m really wondering what options we *do* have. 

I don’t want to pay for an MA. It’s expensive and risky and I’m not sure it’s worth it. BUT. Is the best option then to just already be a great student at a great undergrad institution? 

I guess what I’m trying to get at is this: I feel like academia really benefits those with the means to “make connections” at expensive schools, and I’m not sure how any of us can break that cycle. 

EDIT to add: also. I don’t want this to come across like I’m defending MAPH, because I’m not. I think it seems fishy. Not because it’s nine months is too short (as I stated before, I’m all for short terminal MAs in Canada when the cohort is small etc etc), but because it’s so expensive. More so, I’m wondering: what can I / we do besides getting an MA to make ourselves “more competitive” applicants? I know this is turning into a rant and is partially fueled by a comment implying that there’s no shame in giving up if I don’t get in this round, but like. Idk. I’m annoyed with this process and feel like it’s rigged against a lot of the people I’ve met who also want to go into academia.

So here are my two pennies. I went to a nameless undergrad. And when I say nameless I mean like less than 1k students, off the beaten path, and totally unranked. There were no gender or queer studies classes (which I had to explain in my SOP), and the opportunities were just so limited. Also, for what it's worth, my GPA was 3.5. I really thought I stood no chance with such a background. But it's totally possible. I do think schools and programs take a more nuanced look at applications, and that it's not totally rigged. But, who knows, I'm not yet in the nitty gritty of it. 

To make up for my subpar undergraduate experience I took an advanced course at my local university (a gender studies class so I could put something on my CV). I reached out to faculty members at each school I applied to. I took that damn GRE twice. This is my second round of applications after my shut-out year last year. And I'm so glad I reapplied. Don't lose heart. 

[la_mod]

8 minutes ago, Pezpoet said:

 

To make up for my subpar undergraduate experience I took an advanced course at my local university (a gender studies class so I could put something on my CV). I reached out to faculty members at each school I applied to. I took that damn GRE twice. This is my second round of applications after my shut-out year last year. And I'm so glad I reapplied. Don't lose heart. 

This is really nice to hear, thank you. I’m definitely rooting for you. I’m also very glad I reapplied this year, but am unsure I can do a third round if I need to, for a lot of reasons. Are you only applying to PhD programs?

wait, never mind. I just saw you were admitted to Pittsburgh! Congratulations!

Edited February 8, 2018 by la_mod

[FreakyFoucault]

1 hour ago, la_mod said:

More so, I’m wondering: what can I / we do besides getting an MA to make ourselves “more competitive” applicants?

I think this will depend on where you're applying, but dominating the GRE and Flaubertifying the SoP and WS are probably the two strategies most in your control to perfect. We all know that the GRE is an expedient way of whittling down the application pile (for top programs at least), so I'd stress that if you're like me (not gifted at standardized tests), then you should try to study for them as much and as intelligently as possible. I used spreadsheets to track my study progress and isolate areas in which I was weak. The SoP and WS, moreover, should be as flawless as you can make them. Show them to everyone: your letter writers, other professors, parents/friends, lunatics on the bus -- basically anyone whose opinion you value.  

As far as prestige goes, my undergrad institution is ranked somewhere in the top 50, and its English PhD program, I think, is below 100. I believe one of my letter writers has some kind of working relationship with a professor at one of the schools to which I applied, but I doubt that she reached out to him. I therefore attribute my three acceptances at this point to nothing more than good GRE scores, solid SoP and WS (I went through many, many dozens of drafts), and a lot of luck; or, in other words: blood, sweat, and tears. That's about it. In fact, if I hadn't worked for 1.5 years after graduating (which gave me time to hone my materials), I don't think I would've had as much, if any, luck. Of course, it's possible to be shut out even with perfect GREs and a stupendous SoP/WS, so YMMV. 

I guess what I'm saying, then, is if you think you need a little more time to prepare for grad school, it's not a bad idea to work for a year or two after graduating. And, although I'm not enamored with the business world, I have learned a lot from working in corporate America, especially about how to deal with people, set schedules, accomplish goals, etc. Most important, I matured a little more and began to understand in a deeper sense why I wanted to go to grad school. So, no shame in taking some time off! 

Edited February 8, 2018 by FreakyFoucault
Dat subjunctive doe