caffeinated applicant Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, MichelleObama said: I'm hopeful that the incoming fall cohorts will be forced to delay moving and will be online for the first semester--worst case scenario (I HOPE). I've been laid off from both of my jobs and am waiting to see if my unemployment application goes through, but I am absolutely relying on the practice of scholarship & the receipt of stipend to get me through this mess ? Applied for unemployment for the first time in my life, and the last application I sent was for Yale ? Terribly terribly sorry to hear this!!! I don't have words for this crisis, but this is terribly upsetting to hear, and you'll be in my thoughts. We're all rooting for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryss Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, MichelleObama said: I'm hopeful that the incoming fall cohorts will be forced to delay moving and will be online for the first semester--worst case scenario (I HOPE). I've been laid off from both of my jobs and am waiting to see if my unemployment application goes through, but I am absolutely relying on the practice of scholarship & the receipt of stipend to get me through this mess ? Applied for unemployment for the first time in my life, and the last application I sent was for Yale ? Same. Got laid off yesterday. I was trying to have some savings for moving with my spouse and starting grad school, but everything is so messed up. Strength to you during this time though. It's really hard to simultaneously be thankful for the good things happening when it's overshadowed by this international disaster and uncertainty for a future you began planning for. 52 minutes ago, meghan_sparkle said: If the economic impact of the virus on the US economy is as bad or worse than the 2008 crash, then that's bad for . . . well, not just the job market, but also universities as a whole, whose endowments are often comprised of substantial investment. Princeton lost 25% of its endowment in the 2008 crash; Harvard lost 27%, or 8 billion. Does something like that touch graduate students, or does it amount more or less to mowing the lawns every other week instead of every week? Who knows. It's probably the case that state schools already under pressure (like the UCs) will be the hardest hit by budget cuts. And maybe it's way too early to speculate, possibly counterproductive. But I think it's worth thinking about, as we contemplate devoting ourselves to an institution and making it our home for 5-6 years. The ability to access funding through the department for all kinds of things (travel, conferences, research, emergencies, fellowship opportunities, other projects), to count on funding packages staying the same and properly adjusting each year for inflation . . . all of that is really important and sorta dependent on how well the institution as a whole is doing. Anyway. Something to consider. (Disclaimer: this all comes second to the general economic devastation on so many Americans right now and the inevitable loss of life we'll be seeing, ofc. Compared to that, so much of this seems miniscule. Hoping you all are safe, well or recuperating, and self-isolating.) Can't speak from a place of expertise, but I imagine since the offers are already made to us, they will abide by it as best as they can. This is not to say we won't feel the effects, and funding for the things you listed are indeed important, but we are (*hopefully still*) among the luckier few whose funding packages for the next 5-6 years are still guaranteed. I am worried about the students entering in the upcoming years who will not only be dealing with job scarcity and insane competition for program admission (aka, the usual), but would probably have to worry about the scale and duration of funding. Will we see smaller cohorts with good funding? Or funding for less years? Will they shed parts of the funding package, like health insurance? Such an uncertain time. Crazy that this happened in a matter of weeks. WanYesOnly, caffeinated applicant and merry night wanderer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry night wanderer Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) [insert obsessively thinking about the political climate and general state of the academy and the impact on climate change policy and basically the entire state of hte world for the next 5 years here] ????? Edited March 19, 2020 by merry night wanderer WanYesOnly, Kelsey1599, gooniesneversaydie and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryss Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, onerepublic96 said: As someone for whom reapplication next year is starting to look likely, I just felt a shiver go down my spine... Understandably. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you! And also for all of us. Edited March 19, 2020 by Cryss onerepublic96 and Lighthouse Lana 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghan_sparkle Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Cryss said: Can't speak from a place of expertise, but I imagine since the offers are already made to us, they will abide by it as best as they can. This is not to say we won't feel the effects, and funding for the things you listed are indeed important, but we are (*hopefully still*) among the luckier few whose funding packages for the next 5-6 years are still guaranteed. You would think! I had two current Chicago 2nd years tell me a couple weeks ago that aspects of their funding package have changed twice since they arrived, neither change benefitting the students and in both cases detrimental to them, and the administration has been very reluctant to explain the reason for the changes (I should have asked specifically what they were but the room was hot and I was two beers in, sry)—so it definitely does happen, even in times of institutional bounty. (Chicago for instance is rolling in dough right now through Mellon grant $$$, so like, why is the administration being obstinate about stuff like that? Not cute). Stipend amounts adjusting for inflation is also not always guaranteed, and funding plummeting past year five can be a question mark even at top 10 programs (my Berkeley stipend goes down by ~7k if not more from year 5 onward, for instance; Harvard's stipend goes down 5k from year 5 (no more summer stipend); have heard a recent Penn grad say there was always anxiety in her cohort about funding in the 6th year (though not sure if that's still the case). I think the fact of 5-6 funding packages are guaranteed, but the devil is in the details... It's also the case that other than stipend, the funding offered by the department I mentioned (conferences, travel, etc) can absolutely change, at the discretion of either the dept or GSAS more widely; it's not like it's a part of our offer letters. I've heard from students at Brown and Harvard who are having enormous difficulty getting their expenses for conferences that cancelled due to coronavirus reimbursed (not all airlines are offering refunds; many hotels are not, and students have to pay in advance and make applications for reimbursement after the fact—the stickler being that for some universities the conference funds are only released if the conference actually took place! So they're having to take financial hits of anywhere from a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars. Insanity.) caffeinated applicant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooniesneversaydie Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, merry night wanderer said: [insert obsessively thinking about the political climate and general state of the academy and the impact on climate change policy and basically the entire state of hte world for the next 5 years here] ????? I was so looking forward to the feeling of relief and alleviated stress come April...........................................................................AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *inhale* AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH. As a non-traditional, I've experienced a hell of a ride to just get to this place, but good gravy boats ya'll, this is a lot. MichelleObama, meghan_sparkle, Cryss and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry night wanderer Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, gooniesneversaydie said: As a non-traditional, I've experienced a hell of a ride to just get to this place, but good gravy boats ya'll, this is a lot. I feel this so much. MichelleObama and gooniesneversaydie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkles Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, meghan_sparkle said: You would think! I had two current Chicago 2nd years tell me a couple weeks ago that aspects of their funding package have changed twice since they arrived, neither change benefitting the students and in both cases detrimental to them, and the administration has been very reluctant to explain the reason for the changes (I should have asked specifically what they were but the room was hot and I was two beers in, sry)—so it definitely does happen, even in times of institutional bounty. (Chicago for instance is rolling in dough right now through Mellon grant $$$, so like, why is the administration being obstinate about stuff like that? Not cute). Stipend amounts adjusting for inflation is also not always guaranteed, and funding plummeting past year five can be a question mark even at top 10 programs (my Berkeley stipend goes down by ~7k if not more from year 5 onward, for instance; Harvard's stipend goes down 5k from year 5 (no more summer stipend); have heard a recent Penn grad say there was always anxiety in her cohort about funding in the 6th year (though not sure if that's still the case). I think the fact of 5-6 funding packages are guaranteed, but the devil is in the details... It's also the case that other than stipend, the funding offered by the department I mentioned (conferences, travel, etc) can absolutely change, at the discretion of either the dept or GSAS more widely; it's not like it's a part of our offer letters. I've heard from students at Brown and Harvard who are having enormous difficulty getting their expenses for conferences that cancelled due to coronavirus reimbursed (not all airlines are offering refunds; many hotels are not, and students have to pay in advance and make applications for reimbursement after the fact—the stickler being that for some universities the conference funds are only released if the conference actually took place! So they're having to take financial hits of anywhere from a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars. Insanity.) I can explain Chicago. Stipends have been standardized across the humanities. Every PhD student is now guaranteed a set amount for the duration of their enrollment in the program. This change may prove to be wonderful should we need longer than 6 years to finish our dissertation. By year,I think it amounts to about 500 dollars more a year for me, but a decrease for second years, who had a higher stipend last year). For my cohort, this seems to be a net gain. And it certainly is for students in other departments. Before, from what I understand, other departments had significantly smaller stipends. However, this adjustment came with the caveat that the humanities can only take in a set amount of students per year, so many departments have had to downsize enrollment a ton. This is the scariest bit of it, English seems pretty safe so far. The stipend has seemed to always vary by year, which sucks for my cohort when I consider that last year's had a substantial research grant to buy computers and the like, on top of a higher base amount. But all things considered, I'm living pretty comfortably here, so I haven't felt any immediate outrage. It's unsettling to know that our financial contracts aren't binding on their end, though, but that just seems to be the case for every program. meghan_sparkle and caffeinated applicant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghan_sparkle Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, snorkles said: I can explain Chicago. Stipends have been standardized across the humanities. Every PhD student is now guaranteed a set amount for the duration of their enrollment in the program. This change may prove to be wonderful should we need longer than 6 years to finish our dissertation. By year,I think it amounts to about 500 dollars more a year for me, but a decrease for second years, who had a higher stipend last year). For my cohort, this seems to be a net gain. And it certainly is for students in other departments. Before, from what I understand, other departments had significantly smaller stipends. However, this adjustment came with the caveat that the humanities can only take in a set amount of students per year, so many departments have had to downsize enrollment a ton. This is the scariest bit of it, English seems pretty safe so far. The stipend has seemed to always vary by year, which sucks for my cohort when I consider that last year's had a substantial research grant to buy computers and the like, on top of a higher base amount. But all things considered, I'm living pretty comfortably here, so I haven't felt any immediate outrage. It's unsettling to know that our financial contracts aren't binding on their end, though, but that just seems to be the case for every program. oh yeah, I should have put in a phrase saying that the Chicago changes didn't seem life-altering or ominously bad–and it's worth saying as you do the stipend stretches further in a place like Chicago than it would at other similarly-ranked schools. this is good context ty! though I have to wonder: how is the offer letter not legally binding? I mean clearly it isn't because I keep hearing of stuff like this happening but ... the letter with financial stipend details is proposed as an offer, which is then accepted and signed ... I mean ... I am not very bright and definitely not a lawyer but that sounds binding to me ... Edited March 19, 2020 by meghan_sparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkles Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, meghan_sparkle said: oh yeah, I should have put in a phrase saying that the Chicago changes didn't seem life-altering or ominously bad–and it's worth saying as you do the stipend stretches further in a place like Chicago than it would at other similarly-ranked schools. this is good context ty! though I have to wonder: how is the offer letter not legally binding? I mean clearly it isn't because I keep hearing of stuff like this happening but ... the letter with financial stipend details is proposed as an offer, which is then accepted and signed ... I mean ... I am not very bright and definitely not a lawyer but that sounds binding to me ... Soooo we sign it. They do not. At least I think that's how they can change things at will. Or it's in the fine print. Either way: Super happy fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghan_sparkle Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, snorkles said: Soooo we sign it. They do not. At least I think that's how they can change things at will. Or it's in the fine print. Either way: Super happy fun times. omg..... this is caroline calloway levels of scamming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildeThing Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I am pretty sure offer letters are signed by someone in the graduate school, at least in my experience. That said, I am sure there are mechanisms in place to change binding contracts in case of financial necessity. It would be up to student representatives/unions to fight against them, though it sounds like the Chicago thing was probably negotiated to some degree, since some groups gained money. Also, re: 2008 crash, is this the same magnitude? I am not an economist so I don’t know but either way, if we’re talking 2008 crash then everything is fucked for years anyway (my country was still not fully recovered from 2008...) so while academia will certainly suffer it will suffer no more than other sectors (in fact, it will probably suffer less). Cryss, kolyagogolova and coffeelyf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkles Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, WildeThing said: I am pretty sure offer letters are signed by someone in the graduate school, at least in my experience. That said, I am sure there are mechanisms in place to change binding contracts in case of financial necessity. It would be up to student representatives/unions to fight against them, though it sounds like the Chicago thing was probably negotiated to some degree, since some groups gained money. Also, re: 2008 crash, is this the same magnitude? I am not an economist so I don’t know but either way, if we’re talking 2008 crash then everything is fucked for years anyway (my country was still not fully recovered from 2008...) so while academia will certainly suffer it will suffer no more than other sectors (in fact, it will probably suffer less). This is sounds more likely. Those who had significant changes to their contract were given various options, to either sign on or not. I don't recall the details because they didn't affect me very much. The point still stands though: They have far higher degrees of freedom than we do regarding the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanYesOnly Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 As an international applicant from a country just about to go through a spike in numbers due to the virus, a non-traditional, 3rd cycle applicant, and recently laid off, I'm really at my wits end about this whole situation. I really hope things work out by fall, otherwise I'm done for? cruel optimism, Cryss, caffeinated applicant and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasperlenspieler Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Two quick points: 1. From an outsider perspective the Chicago change (assuming this article is what we're talking about) seems like a decidedly positive change in that it uses funding as a carrot rather than a stick and it incentivizes decreased enrollment. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/10/09/university-chicago-will-guarantee-full-funding-all-humanities-and-social-sciences 2. It became clear in a dispute in our department that our admission letters are not viewed as legally binding documents, but rather good faith promises. I can't generalize that to other situations, but don't assume they will be treated as contracts. (You may however sign an annual TA contract or the like and that *is* legally binding) P.S. I don't want to be a doomsayer, but I'm not at all convinced that this will all blow over by the fall (in fact, quite the opposite): https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing-effect.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck420 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Do folks think it's appropriate to ask Professors whether or not their Department is planning for the possibility that in-person classes might not take place in the fall? We'll see what happens, but it seems like this is a definite possibility, so it doesn't feel outrageous to ask imo, but want to get others' thoughts if possible. Also, anyone else getting nervous about leaving their job as this global recession (possible depression, tbh) looms? I sure am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck420 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said: Do folks think it's appropriate to ask Professors whether or not their Department is planning for the possibility that in-person classes might not take place in the fall? We'll see what happens, but it seems like this is a definite possibility, so it doesn't feel outrageous to ask imo, but want to get others' thoughts if possible. dropped off the forum for a while, but obviously am back and am now up to date on the ongoing Corona Discourse. The literature seems to say yes to this question, so will ask away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck420 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Wondering: is it considered poor form to ask departments about the possibility of a deferral? I have no knowledge of best practices here, and there is basically no one I can ask I only applied to terminal MA programs (planning to move on to a PhD after the MA) and was admitted to several fully funded programs that I am enthusiastic about, but am now wondering whether or not it is wise to leave my stable job for grad school as we are hurtling into--quite possibly--a depression. To be clear, I would attend if I deferred, but I would use the year to save a little money, and hopefully to give the economy some time to recover, so that I didn't graduate into an absolute depression Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobydickpic Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said: Wondering: is it considered poor form to ask departments about the possibility of a deferral? I have no knowledge of best practices here, and there is basically no one I can ask I only applied to terminal MA programs (planning to move on to a PhD after the MA) and was admitted to several fully funded programs that I am enthusiastic about, but am now wondering whether or not it is wise to leave my stable job for grad school as we are hurtling into--quite possibly--a depression. To be clear, I would attend if I deferred, but I would use the year to save a little money, and hopefully to give the economy some time to recover, so that I didn't graduate into an absolute depression Thoughts? I have the same question. Because this is a problem that is likely to affect almost everyone planning to matriculate in fall 2020, I actually think it makes sense to try organizing communications with other admitted students (as in to say: we cannot consider accepting this offer if we cannot know, by April 15, that our seats in the program and funding package will be protected in the case of a delayed or altered start to the fall 2020 semester), or even to appeal to the consortium of many schools that agree on the April 15 deadline, to also form an agreement about protecting incoming students, to which they are all bound? That said, the guarantee would most likely need to come from graduate schools (like the Graduate School of Arts and Science of any given school), not individual programs (which to my knowledge, often have limited authority over things like funding). merry night wanderer and Starbuck420 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasperlenspieler Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Starbuck420 said: Do folks think it's appropriate to ask Professors whether or not their Department is planning for the possibility that in-person classes might not take place in the fall? We'll see what happens, but it seems like this is a definite possibility, so it doesn't feel outrageous to ask imo, but want to get others' thoughts if possible. The problem is that these decisions are not made on the departmental level. They will be made by the administration and most professors are probably as out of the loop as you are. merry night wanderer and Starbuck420 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinymica Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Hi just popping in to say that I am extremely worried about absolutely everything and I can't believe I thought things would be better after I heard back from all programs! The naiveté!! The ignorance!! Anyway, hope you're all well ❤️ ccab4670, Lighthouse Lana and ashwel11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerepublic96 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) So after reading through this thread and thinking of just about all the possible ways everything could go downhill in the next few months, my anxiety has reached a whole new level in which I no longer even recognise it as anxiety. Everything is just numb and unreal now... Edited March 20, 2020 by onerepublic96 BetterLight13 and Lighthouse Lana 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asongreference Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 If this is at all comforting, I used to work for a government agency and have numerous friends in the health sector (namely, doctors and researchers). I’m hearing a return to normal around June or July at latest according to their current projections. These projections are intentionally exaggerated for the sake of assuming a worse case scenario. I THINK we will be fine in terms of courses (though knock on all the wood), but I am more than slightly concerned about moving and housing at this point. ccab4670 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinymica Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Oh another thought! if anyone else is working/studying/writing from home and is interested in co-working in some way or doing productivity check-ins, hit me up! Kelsey1599 and Starbuck420 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck420 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 frankly, guys, I am planning not to attend in person classes in the fall. I work at the world’s main STM publisher, and hearing that bosses expect 18 months of telework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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