Love, Academia and Success

[muskratsam]

That is a pretty darned random post... hard to follow (but you are right, I can pick out the misogyny and racism in it).  I'm not sure how this help the original poster.  I don't think it does...

[Adelaide9216]

I also want to add that I am constantly socializing. Really. I am involved in many different projects and I meet new people all. the. time. Yet, nobody seems interested in me. Or if it is the case, they are already involved in another relationship.

I feel so discouraged. I feel trapped because I have seriously tried everything.

[lemma]

I think as we move through our twenties, being able to just casually meet our life partner gets less and less probable (though is certainly far from impossible). I think this is becoming a larger problem these days because people compartmentalize social situations - here's hanging with the friends, here's going on a tinder date, here's playing sport. I would recommend looking into settings that are for single people, and being patient. I was pretty much single for a year and a half when I met my partner (despite casual dating here and there). In addition to tinder and online dating, most cities have various meetup groups for singles. Persistence is key, though. 

I would also keep on being open to different people, and not trying to fit anything to a particular situation. I met my (now de facto) partner on tinder, and blew off our arranged date the first time. The second time, I was very close to a last minute cancellation as I was hanging out with close friends I hadn't seen in four years. On paper, we were pretty different - I was an ivy league investment banker and he was a math teacher who loved playing strategy games (something I knew nothing about). My job also had me working 80-120 hours a week, and I wasn't sure that someone who didn't move in that world would get it. Despite all of the differences, we fell in love quickly and it turned out we were very compatible intellectually, aspirationally and culturally (despite being an interracial couple - caucasian girl, asian guy). I still pinch myself that he almost slipped through my fingers because he wasn't the type of guy I usually dated. We have gone through a lot of life changes together, and these days the government considers us legally married. 

[PokePsych]

I can second that love comes at unexpected times.

I met my boyfriend of 4.5 years when I traveled to his country for well-travelling. We met through an online community platform (I couldnt read Korean at the time, so meeting someone for lunch and chatting seemed a good idea). Fell in love as soon as he opened his mouth (he has a really nice voice) when he came down the stairs in the subway station where we were supposed to meet. I was not looking for love at all, I was about to finish undergrad and had big plans (that later turned out to be impossible due to my 3-year undergrad which is common in my country), plus long-idstance and cultural differences. Well.. turns out I just still like him more each day. 

[Crucial BBQ]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:12 PM, Adelaide9216 said:

I also want to add that I am constantly socializing. Really. I am involved in many different projects and I meet new people all. the. time. Yet, nobody seems interested in me. Or if it is the case, they are already involved in another relationship.

I feel so discouraged. I feel trapped because I have seriously tried everything.

Here's some advice from the resident oldie:  it sounds like you are active and meeting people who are not only interested in you but you are also interested in them.  Then nothing happens, romantically.  The only common denominator in your life is you.  I don't know you so I don't know how that fits into your situation and your life but sometimes we are our own worst enemies by self-sabotaging even when there is no seemingly rational reason to do so.  You wrote:

"A friend of mine was telling me the other day that all the work that I do, the activism that I am involved in outside of the classroom and the media attention that I get might make it difficult for a man to approach me because I don't "fit" in."

What is standing out to me here is your mention of "...the media attention that I get..." which sounds to me like you are getting a lot of media attention, or aggressive media attention, something like that.  This suggests to me that your activism is the driving force here, and as such, is getting all of your attention and energy.  Perhaps consequential, or perhaps unknowingly intentional, when you do meet someone your energy is zapped, or your mind is on the next bit of activism.  I really don't know.  What I do know is that whether a black woman in grad school or a black woman not in grad school, there is someone (honestly, multiple people) who are right for you.  

A saying; "Do what you always did, get what you always got".  

In what I had quoted of yours above, "Yet, nobody seems interested in me.  Or if it is the case, they are already involved in another relationship."  Remove the absolutes and honestly think about this.  Do you have the same conclusion?  That is your answer. 

 

 

[Crucial BBQ]

On 11/19/2017 at 6:26 AM, lemma said:

I think as we move through our twenties, being able to just casually meet our life partner gets less and less probable (though is certainly far from impossible).

For what it is worth, I respectively disagree.  I know a number of people who had met their life partners in their 30s or later.  To be frank, I believe it becomes easier the older you get. 

[Adelaide9216]

I'm so tired of having my classmates telling me how jealous of me they are. Because that means that they do not see me as being "one of them". They see me as being at "another level" or belonging to another type of category. And I'm sure it's part of the reasons why I struggle to find a partner. Plus, on top of that, I am in a female-dominated professional field. Which makes it even harder. Even though I constantly meet new people in other contexts, go out, tried online dating and so on.

F*ck this. I'm so lucky to have school and interesting projects to be involved in, otherwise, I'd just be depressed and miserable. I'm not optimistic about this. Not at all.

I'm so scared of never having a family. I'm going to have a hard time accepting that if it ends up happening to me. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Adelaide9216

[Adelaide9216]

I'm sorry btw. I just needed to tell someone, somewhere, because everytime I try to open up about things I feel upset about, I am constantly being told how "perfect" my life is... 

 

[fuzzylogician]

4 minutes ago, Adelaide9216 said:

F*ck this. I'm so lucky to have school and interesting projects to be involved in, otherwise, I'd just be depressed and miserable. I'm not optimistic about this. Not at all.

I'm so scared of never having a family. I'm going to have a hard time accepting that if it ends up happening to me. 

You're young; there is no reason why any of that should happen!  (And wow, you have some unsupportive cohort mates! I hope you find a better match in a PhD program. Not everyone is like this!).  And for the record, for women there is always an option of starting a family without a partner. Definitely not ideal, but not finding a partner should not stop you from having a family. 

[Adelaide9216]

My cohort tell me they envy me, but they say it as a compliment. It's not mean. However, I don't find that flattering. They also refer to me as "a star" and I hate it because it creates a distance between me and them, like I can't just be friends with them.  I just wish I could find someone that would treat me like a normal human being with my flaws and strengths because that's what I am after all, a human just like everyone else.

And I've already taken some steps to start a family on my own. It's not ideal, but that's what I am considering more and more at this point. I don't think I will find someone eventually, I am starting to lose hope tbh. I've waited my whole life for a miracle to happen and nothing happens. 

 

[fuzzylogician]

21 minutes ago, Adelaide9216 said:

My cohort tell me they envy me, but they say it as a compliment. It's not mean. However, I don't find that flattering. They also refer to me as "a star" and I hate it because it creates a distance between me and them, like I can't just be friends with them.  I just wish I could find someone that would treat me like a normal human being with my flaws and strengths because that's what I am after all, a human just like everyone else.

It's worth considering that despite the fact that your cohort mates may admire some aspects of your work or personality, you might all benefit from you being a "normal human being with flaws" around them. If for no other reason, then so you can tell them that you appreciate that they are trying to flatter and support you, but instead it's generating anxiety and makes it more difficult for you to connect with them. And also so they learn that judging what you see on the outside is rarely the full picture, even for someone who you envy. But honestly, at the end of the day, you have to decide that you'll make friends with people regardless of how they do academically. There will always be people who are better than you (or so you think) and those who seem to do worse. That has not much bearing on whether they'll be good friends. You also need to choose to not measure yourself against others and to do your best to find friends who are the same (and they do exist!), because comparisons aren't healthy for anyone. 

[CarefreeWritingsontheWall]

I'm in the same boat, and part of it is my own doing, while the other part of it is just the nature of the dating scene where I'm doing my PhD. I didn't think that much about it before attending, having shunned relationships during the second half of my MA in order to focus on getting into a PhD program, and during the end of my BA for the same reasons. When I got into the program I'm now attending, and I asked my MA advisor what he thought of it, he spent 30 seconds extolling the program's virtues before deadpanning and stating, "oh but the dating scene is super fucked up." (I will never forget this xD). Fast forward six months later to when I'm actually attending, and one of our Friday happy hours devolves into a number of women more senior in the program lamenting about how hard it is to date in the area. 99% of those that came into my program single (about half of us) have been most successful dating beyond the university and in surrounding cities. Only two couples are openly dating in the department (across cohorts), with only a handful of others dating individuals in other departments. Some have found Bumble a great way to meet people, others have just made social ties beyond the university. 

At 25, I'm left wondering what they're doing that I'm not. In all honesty, I was in love once and I was so blind at the time to a number of terrible attributes in my former boyfriend that I became very wary of letting myself fall head over heels again (this was a three year on again off again thing starting just before my BA and ending in my junior year). Pair that with a sexual assault by an athlete in my sophomore year of undergrad, and I'm one of the most flighty people when dating because I panic when a guy moves too fast. I've been torn to shreds by men for this and I've grown very comfortable being single as a result - a little too much so IMO. Emotionally I can't do one night stands or "casual dating" which I've found to be what most men my age are looking for. This leaves me wanting a relationship but often being too scared to let something progress to that point (or, like you, frequently finding myself liking people who don't reciprocate or aren't available). 

Despite all of this, I know I want a relationship. I want to get married and one day have children. So how do I square this circle? Part of it's confidence building and working through the traumas of my past relationships/encounters with men. I realized last year that I needed a counsellor to help me sort through these feelings, and other general issues, and it's been helping. Part of its being comfortable just being social. I know for me, that I will need to be friends first with a future partner. This often means I'm friend-zoned - especially since I naturally have a lot of male friends since I work in a male dominated discipline (and having a brother meant most of my friends growing up were also boys). On the plus side, however, they all look out for me when I have dated (with the running joke being now that my future boyfriend will have a lot of people to please). 

Having been in love before, and not being a visible minority, of course puts me in a different position than you. I know I'm capable of it. I know I want to be in that position again to trust someone that deeply. But I've also learned to be patient with myself and to not force myself to be "out and looking" when I'm not comfortable doing so just yet. This means I'm not the person going on a ton of dates, which I'm okay with most of the time. But some stretches are difficult - holidays in particular.

My advice is just to be patient with yourself. Don't force it. Experiencing the let down of non-reciprocated feelings is normal and a part of this process. Seek social opportunities within your department but also at the university level (graduate student government type events are great for meeting other academics). Perhaps look into Bumble. Seek social opportunities outside of the university with friends. Strike up conversations but don't hold people to any sort of expectation. It will happen. 

 

[Tigla]

Hopefully, I can bring a bit of optimism into this discussion.

 

During my undergrad years, I met a woman who was amazing and we started dating. The first year and a half were great, but then I needed to have the graduate school discussion with her.  In my head, I had imagined that this discussion would end it all because of the stories about "love" and "relationships" being destroyed by graduate school. I worked up the courage and finally sat down with her. After several hours of explaining what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go, how it was going to affect the relationship, etc, we got to the part where the break-up typically occurs. However, she did not do that! Instead, she supported me and encourage me to chase my dreams. About five months later, we had a similar discussion because I was accepted into an MA program in Germany while she was given an offer to teach English in the Arctic Circle in Alaska. Once again, those fears of losing her crept in but never manifested. We both supported each other's decision and attempted the long distance thing.

The six months were incredibly hard; fighting from stress, not listening to one another, and being snippy are just some of the examples. Despite these attacks, we both realized that this was not us and that treating each other with a little respect and openness would help us immensely. In fact, it did. The spark we had back in our undergraduate re-emerged and we were supporting each other, again. The second six months were much easier since we both fell into a rhythm and understanding of one another's place. During the summer, she came to visit Germany for 2 months in which she stayed with me. At the end of her stay, I got down on one knee and asked her to be my wife. She said yes.

I tell the story not because I want "awwws" or "lucky," but rather to show that relationships in a graduate program can work if both sides want it. Of course, difficulties will appear and constantly push your buttons. However, a supportive partner who will always be there is your goal. Do not settle nor put yourself out there for anyone. As most people here have suggested, take your time and be honest with everyone you meet. Converse with colleagues and non-colleagues (these actually tend to be more fun and intellectually invigorating than ones with colleagues). If you have a solid group of friends, then make one night per week a night-out; go to the bar, go bowling, go see a movie. It really does not matter as long as you leave the world of academia for a couple hours and meet "normal people." After all, these interactions with "normal people" may lead you to find the perfect person. 

In short, it is possible! Do not give up on yourself and value yourself in all relationships, not merely the ones that are romantic.

[ShewantsthePhD101]

Hey girl hey. I'm 24, applying for PhDs, and most of my friends got married at 20-22. My friends are all in the baby having stage right now, so I feel you. This sucks. And, unfortunately, a lot of men are still intimidated by smart/driven women. I just try to shrug it off because I wouldn't be happy with a man so easily frightened anyway, but sometimes it's easier said than done. All I can offer is a cyber hug, some solidarity, and some hope. We don't need 1000 men falling over us. Just one, if he's the right one. And I mean, come on. Out of the billions of men on this planet, there has to be at least one with whom we can have reciprocal attraction, some shared values, and a good time. I'm confident that with patience, we'll both get what we want academically AND romantically.

[lemma]

3 hours ago, ShewantsthePhD101 said:

We don't need 1000 men falling over us. Just one, if he's the right one. And I mean, come on. Out of the billions of men on this planet, there has to be at least one with whom we can have reciprocal attraction, some shared values, and a good time. I'm confident that with patience, we'll both get what we want academically AND romantically.

This is wise! Another thing that helps is to think about what really matters in a partner, not just what we might think of initially. I can't imagine someone who would entertain, challenge and support me like my partner, however, if I had met him a few years earlier I might not have gone on that first date. I had pretty rigid ideas of what made a good partner, and given what my previous relationships were like, I wasn't honing in on what really mattered to me. 

[_kita]

My advise to people is live the life you want to be living. You are the sum of the 5 closest people in your life. If you want a life partner, and not just a relationship, you need to live or be working towards your ideal life. That's when they'll enter your life and be drawn to you. It is certainly harder for educated minority women. It is also harder if you want both academia and a family life. But it is possible. I made an important decision in my mid-20's. I decided that being a mother was more important to me than being married. But my career and motherhood were both non-negotiable. After that, it was easier avoiding relationships that wouldn't amount to that life partner.

I started dating a guy a month into graduate school (my first masters). He was a friend of friends, and we used to run a club together back in undergrad. In my case, it ended up being the most solid relationship in my entire life. Partially because we hold the same personal values - but not the same career ones. In the past I dated other academia focused guys, and they were more focused on themselves and/or making our goals competitive. With my current boyfriend, we're both equally ambitious but entirely different ways (he's an artist and content developer). 

 

 

 

[rising_star]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:05 PM, CarefreeWritingsontheWall said:

At 25, I'm left wondering what they're doing that I'm not.

...

My advice is just to be patient with yourself. Don't force it. Experiencing the let down of non-reciprocated feelings is normal and a part of this process. Seek social opportunities within your department but also at the university level (graduate student government type events are great for meeting other academics). Perhaps look into Bumble. Seek social opportunities outside of the university with friends. Strike up conversations but don't hold people to any sort of expectation. It will happen. 

So... some of this is youth, I think. There's really no reason to wonder about what others are doing that you aren't because so much of it is about your timing. Maybe there just happened to be two people in the right place at the right time and you haven't had that moment yet. Maybe they read loads of dating advice online and follow it to a T. Maybe they have a secret talent for mind-reading and use that to find the right person. You'll never really know. And I'd say to stop worrying or wondering about it altogether because it doesn't serve much of a purpose. 

But also, you grow and change throughout graduate school and as you age (and, sometimes both at once!). What I wanted in a relationship at the beginning of my MA is quite different than what I want now that I'm done with my PhD. Similarly, the dating landscape has changed (e.g., Tinder wasn't a thing when I was dating online years ago). In terms of the online scene, some apps are known more for those seeking long-term/serious relationships than others (Match, eHarmony, and Jdate come to mind). Others (Bumble, Tinder) are typically used more casually though sometimes these lead to long-term relationships. There are also meetup groups for singles in many cities so you could try that. Or try volunteering for a nonprofit and connecting with people that way.

@Adelaide9216, if you're concerned about the potential for dates to basically be racist, you could try using apps where people have to answer questions and then weed out the ones who are racist. I've used OkCupid in the past so I know that there are questions in their database about one's willingness to date someone outside their own race/ethnicity and about one's attitude toward racist jokes, just to give two examples. If you go that route, then you can weight those questions as extremely important to you and then look at other people's answers and hide/block them based on their response. It's not a perfect method, but it is one way to reduce the potential for bad dates.

That said, I think going on bad dates is just part of the process. I also think it's important to get outside one's comfort zone and date someone who may not be your usual type. I've dated several people that are not my usual type. Sometimes it works out and other times it's an absolute disaster but, you live and learn. Thinking of all the dates as a learning experience (turn on your critical social science lens but only after the fact) can be valuable. It also gives you a chance to learn about yourself and the things that are or will become dealbreakers for you. I hope some of this helps!

[breemartini]

Try to develop more loving non-romantic relationships. Sometimes loneliness can be alleviated by friendship. I know they aren't the same as relationships with a significant other, but friendships can be supportive, nurturing, inspiring, tender, and altogether wonderful. Isn't going out with a best friend like a date? (Minus the sexual intimacy, maybe.) On another note, have you considered being more open with your sexuality? Or are you completely certain of what you want in a romantic relationship?

Sending you positivity throughout the rest of the holiday season~~~

[Adelaide9216]

I do have friends already. and yes, I know what I want from a relationship.

Thanks for the wishes, hope you have a great holiday season too.

[csphdplease]

Girl, I feel you SO MUCH. As a black female hoping to enter grad school next year, I keep wondering that maybe things will get better for my dating life there. But I have soooo lost hope on that. I had that same hope when entering undergrad, and I still have had not one drop of a romantic life. I've heard all the cliche advice ("It'll come when you're not looking", "You just need to put yourself out there", etc), and yet seen friend after friend get pursued by guys. Like, if you've ever watched Dear White People and seen that scene with Coco waiting for a guy to ask her out after all of her white friends have been, I feel like that describes my life.

And nobody ever understands how it feels. I have grown so much as a person to where, though I have moments of insecurity like a normal person, I am happy with the way that I look and who I am. I am not sitting around feeling as though I am a low-quality person because of this. It's just that one aspect of my life that I'm insecure about. Why don't boys like me? And it's never an easy question to deal with. You can never 100% know if it's the color of your skin (well, I suppose with real jerks you can), and that makes it all the more mind-gnawing. Like, is there something I can be doing better or is this just the life to which I'm resigned? It sucks too. If you're a successful black woman, then you're intimidating and emasculating. But if you're not, then you're just another  "ghetto" girl. There is no winning. I know I'm ranting, but with who my close friends are, it's not very often that I get to talk to someone else who gets it. 

[Adelaide9216]

7 hours ago, csphdplease said:

Girl, I feel you SO MUCH. As a black female hoping to enter grad school next year, I keep wondering that maybe things will get better for my dating life there. But I have soooo lost hope on that. I had that same hope when entering undergrad, and I still have had not one drop of a romantic life. I've heard all the cliche advice ("It'll come when you're not looking", "You just need to put yourself out there", etc), and yet seen friend after friend get pursued by guys. Like, if you've ever watched Dear White People and seen that scene with Coco waiting for a guy to ask her out after all of her white friends have been, I feel like that describes my life.

And nobody ever understands how it feels. I have grown so much as a person to where, though I have moments of insecurity like a normal person, I am happy with the way that I look and who I am. I am not sitting around feeling as though I am a low-quality person because of this. It's just that one aspect of my life that I'm insecure about. Why don't boys like me? And it's never an easy question to deal with. You can never 100% know if it's the color of your skin (well, I suppose with real jerks you can), and that makes it all the more mind-gnawing. Like, is there something I can be doing better or is this just the life to which I'm resigned? It sucks too. If you're a successful black woman, then you're intimidating and emasculating. But if you're not, then you're just another  "ghetto" girl. There is no winning. I know I'm ranting, but with who my close friends are, it's not very often that I get to talk to someone else who gets it. 

THIS. 

Happy Holidays btw. We're not alone in this! 

[ShewantsthePhD101]

On 11/17/2017 at 10:58 PM, chalkdust said:

I'm trying to make a point here because this forum doesn't like me and I am sharpening my claws.

Gee... I wonder why. Maybe because you openly admit to the appropriation of cultures that don't belong to you and ramble like a lunatic.

 

[Adelaide9216]

Trying out dating websites again. This time a paid one (EliteSingles). I had tried it a few years ago, but I am re-trying again for three months and we'll see where it will take me.

[khigh]

Honestly, I found my boyfriend and love when I stopped looking. I’m divorced and an older student (31), so I didn’t fit into the dating scene at my undergrad. I was traveling in Europe between my junior and senior year and got an off hand Facebook message from a one year adjunct from my junior year in my department. His contract was up and we started talking casually that summer. I got back from Europe that July and drove to his state from mine (800 miles each way) a few times to hang out. He moved to Europe and I stayed here to finish my undergrad and we’ve been doing long distance for a year and a half. We’ve met a few times in Europe to travel and he’s coming back here to stay early this coming year. 

Neither of us was looking for anything or anyone, but we found each other and are planning on marriage and babies in the next few years.  In our situation, I told my department as soon as we started dating because I had taken a few of his classes. They had no problems with this because he was gone when we started dating and they had an independent reviewer go over all the work I did for those classes. There was zero favoritism. We talk all the time and make long distance date nights a few times a week and can not wait to spend our lives together. We enjoy a lot of the same things outside academia and he understands the stress of going through the grad school process. 

Moral of the story...There is always hope and you never know when or where you will find someone. Love will happen when it happens. Sometimes you just have to stop looking and love yourself and your person will find you. 

[ProfessionalNerd]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:18 PM, Adelaide9216 said:

Trying out dating websites again. This time a paid one (EliteSingles). I had tried it a few years ago, but I am re-trying again for three months and we'll see where it will take me.

how is it working out?