Lessons Learned: Application Season Debriefings

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

22 minutes ago, dsbanis said:

you could get turned down even if you're a perfect match

Mhm...I don't know about this. I feel what happens is that if the committee/professors at that specific school don't see us as a perfect match, we get rejected. This surely is more or less subjective, but does not necessarily mean that those professors are wrong. After all, it's more about what they think of us, not what we think of them. This might be sub-field specific, but my POIs from Harvard and Columbia both mentioned that they reviewed all the applications to my sub-field carefully. So, I no longer think the decision making in my sub-field is that random and arbitrary. Also, at least one of my POIs mentioned (figuratively) that someone whose style matches that of Harvard may not match the style of Columbia. 

So, I second historygeek, 5 is about right. After all, it's about getting in the program you want to get into, and then get a job after you are out of it....it's not really about getting into any school. And like what others have said for so many times, it's rather unlikely that there could be as many as 10 elite programs given our supposed-to-be flexible but somewhat refined research interests.

*elite= good funding and resources + good placement records + good advising + many other factors 

1 hour ago, cyborg213 said:

I'm sure many people with no connections are offered admission

Yes. I wouldn't worry about this "lack of connections".  

[MARTINt]

1. Make sure your writing sample reflects all your skills. I study medieval history, so knowledge of Latin is very important in my field. I made sure to translate ALL the passages I quote on my own, and to add the original Latin in the footnotes. Also, I did my best to show that I can read in German (even if it takes me forever). Moreover, try to send a paper that is not only well written, but also somewhat original. I've heard from a current grad student that, as far as he knows, many applicants submit rather technical writing samples. By that I mean papers that show great proficiency in the historiography of a given field, but lack the ability to articulate original questions and to offer provocative assessments. So do your best to show that you have a unique perspective and that you can translate it to excellent research projects. Schools don't need grad students that can only say what hundreds of scholars have already said.

2. I agree with @Karou about the importance of figuring out your research interests. Coming up with a project to which you'll be devoting so many years of your life is not an easy task. I got really confused about it, and offered a project that I didn't really like. From my experience, the most important question you should ask yourself is what are the types of sources (narrative sources, legal documents, charters, epistolography, etc.) you see yourself working with.

3. Don't apply to universities you don't want to go to. Don't waist time on safety schools. I don't think it's worth writing an application for a school that can't fund you properly, or to a professor whose work makes you sleepy.

Edited February 10, 2019 by MARTINt

[luz.colorada]

I want to reiterate what someone said above which was definitely apply to MA programs. My first cycle I got rejected from all the PhDs I applied to but am now finishing my MA and have been accepted to all the programs I've heard back from so far. I expect some rejections, of course, but this has been a very different experience. I know many people on this forum have applied multiple times, so if the first round doesn't turn out as you hope it will then don't let that stop you. Having an MA or two as a backup plan is a good idea. If you don't end up needing it, great! 

[DanaJ]

Firstly, I want to echo the discussion of considering an MA program. Honestly, for all this talk of elite schools, my goal was always to teach community college (for a variety of personal reasons). With that goal in mind, I set my sights on a terminal MA and NEVER considered applying to any PhD program out of undergrad. That goal has evolved as I have grown and gotten further into my research, and I am still shocked that I will be entering a PhD program in the fall, simply because it was not the plan until about a year ago.

Secondly, an advisor or two is a key element to this process. I had my MA thesis advisor working with me on my writing sample (as it is a chapter from my thesis), but my department chair helped me extensively with my SOP. Those types of instructors and mentors can also help you determine schools that are best for you to apply for. So many historians know each other, they will likely know someone who could be a potential POI.

Thirdly, contact potential POIs EARLY. I was in e-mail contact as early as March of 2018. Honestly, I started discussing my research interests with them and trying to work out if we would be a good fit because many of us live life on a budget, why waste time/application fees/stress on programs that are certainly not going to accept you because your POI is not interested. That's not a surefire way to be accepted, but it helps to know if the program is worth your effort and cost. I still ended up rejected from a program after speaking to a POI on the basis of "your intended advisor did not think he could properly advise your project." You never know, but networking and feeling people out never hurts, as long as you are polite and respectful about how you approach it.

Ok, for some reason this has turned into a much longer response than I planned, but I'll keep going. Visit schools that you are interested in (if you are able). Set meetings with the DGS and POI. It doesn't have to be a formal interview, but if you show up with questions prepared about the program and demonstrate that you are serious, it can go a long way. Dress nicely, make a good impression, and admission committees will be able to put a face with the name on paper. This also helps you because you can see if your personality fits with your POI. I can't imagine anything worse than entering a long term program and having to work closely with someone I could not stand! The program I will be attending in the fall is one that I went to meet with. Honestly, my verbal GRE score is not fantastic. My written was fairly high, as well as my letters, GPA, and presumably the rest of my application. I think that visiting helped to offset the fact that standardized tests are not my friend.

Lastly, I know the job market is hard. The goal of entering these programs is to find work after you graduate. That said, yes, the big elite schools look great to potential employers, but check out the placement records of some of the smaller state schools. ESPECIALLY if there is a POI who you mesh well with. Great historians do work outside of the well known programs, and if the school has a good reputation, a good placement record, and a good POI, there's no reason to not consider them. I am glad that I looked, because my research interests are relatively uncommon and I got very lucky with the school that I found. Do lots of research into different types of programs, sometimes what's best in a name is not necessarily best for your personal interests or goals.

**EDIT: Many state schools also offer funding packages, especially because they realize our job market is incredibly tough. Always look at the funding, but keep in mind that it is often offered. I am about to complete a partially funded MA at a regional school, and I had scholarships to cover what my Grad Assistant position did not. There's always ways to find funding, but you have to look!

I hope some of my rant helped. I'm clearly no authority figure, I just speak from experience.

Edited February 11, 2019 by DanaJ

[e_randolph]

I'll parrot most of what has been said above. 

The keys to a strong application lie in the SOP and the writing sample.  The SOP is your opportunity to elucidate not only what you want to study, but also how you want to study it.  Absolutely tailor your SOP to each school (and probably more than tossing in an obligatory "I want to work with ..." sentence at the end).

In the writing sample, clearly demonstrate your use of primary sources, but don't slough on analysis.  

Finally, don't leave anything on the table when you're applying -- proofread, write confidently and honestly, and secure strong rec letters.  But, for the love of god, once you've submitted, STOP.  Do NOT reread anything until you have a response in hand because you will inevitably find a typo and spend all your time obsessing over it.

 

This process is capricious.  There are things you can do to make yourself stand out, but it is not an exact science.  Who knows which way the wind will blow from one year to the next?  Be kind to yourself and remind yourself that your worth has nothing to do with any school's admissions decision.

[DanaJ]

6 hours ago, e_randolph said:

I'll parrot most of what has been said above. 

The keys to a strong application lie in the SOP and the writing sample.  The SOP is your opportunity to elucidate not only what you want to study, but also how you want to study it.  Absolutely tailor your SOP to each school (and probably more than tossing in an obligatory "I want to work with ..." sentence at the end).

In the writing sample, clearly demonstrate your use of primary sources, but don't slough on analysis.  

Finally, don't leave anything on the table when you're applying -- proofread, write confidently and honestly, and secure strong rec letters.  But, for the love of god, once you've submitted, STOP.  Do NOT reread anything until you have a response in hand because you will inevitably find a typo and spend all your time obsessing over it.

 

This process is capricious.  There are things you can do to make yourself stand out, but it is not an exact science.  Who knows which way the wind will blow from one year to the next?  Be kind to yourself and remind yourself that your worth has nothing to do with any school's admissions decision.

ohhhh, Stop would have been vital to my application process!!! I used a sample thesis chapter, but the thesis is still in progress. I have been back over these pages more times than I would like to count, and I did find a MAJOR typo! Luckily I fixed it after two applications, I staggered mine due to fees. The program that accepted me did not read the same sample as some of my earlier applications.

[e_randolph]

26 minutes ago, DanaJ said:

ohhhh, Stop would have been vital to my application process!!! I used a sample thesis chapter, but the thesis is still in progress. I have been back over these pages more times than I would like to count, and I did find a MAJOR typo! Luckily I fixed it after two applications, I staggered mine due to fees. The program that accepted me did not read the same sample as some of my earlier applications.

I'm having a hard time determining what you're trying to say.  But I think my advice stands. As I said, once you've submitted, STOP reading your submitted materials.  If you haven't submitted, keep proofreading and sharpening your work.  It's destructive to stew over materials you no longer have any control over, particularly during the month(s)-long waiting period.

[DanaJ]

1 hour ago, e_randolph said:

I'm having a hard time determining what you're trying to say.  But I think my advice stands. As I said, once you've submitted, STOP reading your submitted materials.  If you haven't submitted, keep proofreading and sharpening your work.  It's destructive to stew over materials you no longer have any control over, particularly during the month(s)-long waiting period.

I submitted a sample that I felt good about, but it was a chapter from my MA thesis, which is a larger work that is still in progress. As my thesis has evolved over time, I would go back and re-work aspects of the chapter I had submitted as a writing sample. I would probably have felt great if I never had to look at that section of my thesis again, but since I had to go back to it as part of a larger project, I discovered typos in the sample that I had submitted to programs!

I agree with your advice not to look at materials once you have submitted them, but I would add that if you are continuing to apply to other programs, an extra look does not hurt. Application fees can be hard for students, I staggered my applications over 2 week periods so that all of the fees did not hit me all at once. As I was spreading applications out over time, I was also continuing to work on my thesis so I was revisiting the sample I had submitted. I was happy to fix the error that I found before sending my writing sample to the program I was ultimately accepted into, but at the same time I doubt that one typo would have been enough to justify rejecting me! It can create unnecessary stress but using a writing sample that best demonstrates your interests can also work to your benefit because it emphasizes what you are saying in your SOP. If it's part of a larger work in progress, it is harder to walk away from.

Edited February 12, 2019 by DanaJ

[Sigaba]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:19 PM, historygeek said:

1. Be honest with yourself. I chose a field that I felt like I had to be in instead of one that I was more interested in, which was my first really big mistake. I also didn't think about whether I was actually ready to do a PhD straight out of undergrad. When my thesis advisor encouraged me to apply to Masters programs, I was feeling like he just was underestimating my abilities and I was almost insulted. In the process of writing my thesis, I realized that I could benefit from more practical training. I also chose schools based on their ranking and made very loose fit judgements.

5. Use your advisors/professors. They will be willing to help you go through your writing sample and SOP. Yes, people on here will help you, and writing services can help you with your grammar, but professors will probably be the best people to go through and make sure you have everything you need. 

2

I would recommend that one not under any circumstances "use" advisors, professors. Accept their support, follow their guidance, make use of their experience and expertise, but don't "use" them. They will see through it right away and adjust accordingly.

On 2/11/2019 at 9:24 AM, historygeek said:

[M]y thesis advisor told me that I should "expect disappointment" (his words, verbatim).

 

Do you understand why he may have suggested that you manage your expectations?

[historygeek]

5 minutes ago, Sigaba said:

I would recommend that one not under any circumstances "use" advisors, professors. Accept their support, follow their guidance, make use of their experience and expertise, but don't "use" them. They will see through it right away and adjust accordingly.

Do you understand why he may have suggested that you manage your expectations?

"Use" in my post wasn't intended to mean to use your advisors just as a tool, but to get their guidance and their wisdom, if that makes sense! I meant "use" in the sense that you mean: to accept support and make use of their expertise, as well as asking them for guidance on SOPs, etc.

Yes, in retrospect I completely understand. At the time, it was disheartening, but ultimately necessary.

Edited February 12, 2019 by historygeek

[confusatory]

I'd say that my biggest pieces of advice, which have also been mentioned above, are:

1. Apply to MA programs as well if you can. Or have some sort of plan B. Before I received acceptances I was very stressed because I didn't have any other plans.
2. Get started early! I did this and it made the process much less overwhelming.
3. Having a professor read over my SOP and answer my questions about grad school in general was such a great help. Definitely try to find a mentor.
4. Reach out to POIs before you apply. It's nice to know if they are accepting grad students, and to see what they're really like. This saved me from sending in a few applications that probably would've been tossed since my POI was about to retire.

[Anama]

I echo the advice on interpersonal relationships. The problem is not everyone has those great mentors just around the corner but something I have learned is that even during the application cycle you can forge new relationships. There are professor out there willing to mentor you through an application process if they see you are serious. Start early, take it seriously even if there is still a lot of time till the application is due, this is a marathon don't exhaust yourself on one part of the process. Ultimately what helped me tremendously has been the visualization that I already was working on my PhD rather than just applying. I could take myself very seriously when I considered it a job and didn't loose confidence if one thing didn't go as planned at fist. It's really simple actually, don't complicate it.

[elx]

I'm not entirely sure what's the process for this, but would any mods consider pinning this topic so it doesn't get lost as new threads are posted in the History forum?

Some really valuable insight for future applicants in this thread imo!

[dr. t]

There's an existing thread pinned on the same subject; I merged the two and changed the title - does that work?

[elx]

5 hours ago, telkanuru said:

There's an existing thread pinned on the same subject; I merged the two and changed the title - does that work?

Love it!

[dr. t]

OK so there has been some nonsense and someone merged 3 threads into one. I've tried to pull them apart to the best of my ability, so if I've left one of your posts behind here

Please flag it using the report feature and tag me in the report, and I will port it back over.

 

[Sigaba]

I am bumping this dormant thread. What follows is a slightly edited version of the OP. Please note the bolded portion.

The purpose of this thread is for those who applied to graduate programs in history to do some chalk talk. What would you do differently and why? What parts of the process did you nail? Did you take any risks and how did they pay off? Were you surprised by any hidden fees? What role did campus visits play in making decisions on where to apply or where to go? Did you apply to too many programs, too few, or just the right amount?

 

Because many are still learning where they've been accepted, if you post in this thread, please provide a "snap shot" of your current status. Perhaps the easiest way for many to provide this snap shot is to copy and paste the biographical information from your signature. Or, you could employ a short hand to indicate the number of schools to which you applied, the yesses, the nos, and the wait and sees.

Here's the deal. Year after year, many aspiring graduate students come to the history forum of the GradCafe and ask a lot of questions and provide a lot of blow by blow details of the process. Year after year, many aspiring graduate students stop posting soon after getting offers of admission and/or letters of rejection. When they leave, they take a treasure trove of useful information and invaluable experiences. The aim of this thread is to provide an opportunity for a cathartic "exit interview" of sorts so that future members of this BB can use it to build tool kits to use when they apply.

Please keep in mind that the reasons why applicants do get into their preferred programs will remain largely unknown. History departments are complex collections of interconnected black boxes and some of those black boxes are inside other black boxes. So please do what you can to differentiate between the reasons you got in (or didn't) and the reasons you think you got in (or did not).

For those of you who have not had as much success as you would like, it may be especially difficult to share your experiences. But I say if you did the best that you could under the circumstances, you should be proud of the hard work you've done. Hold your heads high and tell us what you have learned.

[....]

A caveat. Many of you may be emotionally raw right now after years of very hard work, months of highs and lows, and weeks of checking your email every five minutes. Please do what you can to manage those emotions if you post in this thread. Do not betray any confidences. Do not do too much venting. Do not post anything that you would not be willing to say to a DGS or any of the other Powers That Be at any institution you would like to attend as a graduate student. 

Lastly, do not, under any circumstances, reach out to a department that declined to offer you admissions with anything resembling a chip on your shoulder. In addition to the skills you are building and the knowledge you're acquiring, you also need to focus on your personal professional reputation and your temperament. Your reputation will play a pivotal role in all of the decisions made about you between now and the time you get tenure, if not beyond.

 

[AP]

5 hours ago, Sigaba said:

Lastly, do not, under any circumstances, reach out to a department that declined to offer you admissions with anything resembling a chip on your shoulder. In addition to the skills you are building and the knowledge you're acquiring, you also need to focus on your personal professional reputation and your temperament. Your reputation will play a pivotal role in all of the decisions made about you between now and the time you get tenure, if not beyond.

I'd like to piggyback on this.

The fact that a program did not admit you this round or that you declined an offer does absolutely not mean that that door is closed. I've seen my program organize workshops/seminars and invite a couple of students they wished they came. I've also met POIs that rejected my application and am now close collaborator with their students. One, actually, was a member in my dissertation committee. 

So, yes, your professional reputation starts today, no matter what happens. 

[TMP]

I'd like to add that if you have an offer from a "top 10" program and are upset that you got "rejected" from "lesser" programs, it says so much about how you control your ego.  Such a "rejection" actually signify that your application is so strong that the committee is actually afraid that you won't come if you have a "better" offer.  Without actually reassuring the POI in the early stages of application that this so-called "lesser" program is a top choice (i.e. you would actually go to this program over Berkeley), the committee can't be sure, especially if it's a public school.  In these days when Graduate Schools are looking to encourage cuts in a program, it is in the department's best interests to choose applicants who it strong believes will 98% accept the offer.  The more offers accepted, the better chance of preserving the cohort numbers for the next cycle.

[Balleu]

I applied in the Fall 2019 cycle to 5 schools and ended up with 4 rejections and 1 admit. My general background: 2 years at a SLAC/Ivy right out of high school (3 strong semesters followed by one disaster semester, withdrew with a 3.33 GPA), worked throughout my 20s, finished my BA in History during those years at an R2 state school (completed a thesis through the school's honors college, graduated with a 4.0), applied for PhD programs in my early 30s a few years after finishing the BA. My approach to the process and lessons learned:

1. Understand your research questions and why they are significant. Before you do anything else, you need a rock-solid understanding of your research questions, how you'll answer them, and why they matter. What has the existing scholarship said about your proposed topic and why do you think that historiography needs to be challenged/expanded? What methodological and theoretical approaches inform your work? This is the foundation of a successful SoP; it's the difference between passion for history and preparedness for historical work. Students in my program write an article-length research work by the end of their first year; you need to show you will arrive on campus already able to formulate and investigate historical research questions.

2. Do your research on programs and professors. Once I felt confident on point 1 above, I launched into research on programs and professors. Who are the big names in your subfield and methodology? Where do they teach? What are their former students doing now? Who are the early career historians whose work you admire and where did they train? Who else in a department aside from Dr. Big Name could be part of your training? If you are proposing interdisciplinary, transnational, or comparative work, look at other relevant departments' offerings AND make sure the History department will support that approach. I made a spreadsheet as I went, with information on the structure of the program (coursework, language requirements, when do students take comps, coursework outside of history, etc.), potential faculty mentors, and practical information (application deadline and requirements, funding package, teaching expectations, etc.). 

3. Choose quality over quantity. Once you have a list of programs you're considering, start narrowing it down. All available evidence says that where you get your PhD matters much more than simply getting one. On the advice of my faculty mentors, I decided at the outset that I would either go to a top-tier school with five guaranteed years of funding or I wouldn't go at all. That meant there were many schools that never made it onto my spreadsheet. For those that did, I emailed potential advisers a version of the following: "I'm a prospective grad student planning to research X. I am contacting you because of your work on X and the department's strengths in Y. Will you be taking on new graduate students in the upcoming year?" Some never wrote back, some responded that their department wouldn't be the right fit for my work and suggested others I should explore, some wrote back enthusiastically and we spoke via email or phone as I was preparing my applications. I applied to 5 programs and in retrospect only 1 or 2 of those were actually solid choices. My rejections make perfect sense in hindsight because my work didn't fit those departments' approach, faculty strengths, etc. There were several places I didn't apply that I should have (some out of oversight, some out of stubbornness about not living in Southern California).

4. Show them you can accomplish what you say you can. Your SoP is where you tell them what you plan to do; your writing sample is where you show them that you can accomplish it. Submit original primary source research, ideally showcasing the language and methodology skills you'll use for your graduate research. I considered submitting a section of my undergraduate thesis, but decided to revise and condense the whole work into a 20 page sample. I went through paragraph by paragraph and included only the sections most crucial to my argument. Once I had it cut down to sample length, I asked faculty mentors to read it and offer feedback. 

5. Behave as if you're already their colleague. You are applying for a paid apprenticeship on the path to guild membership. Do your best to show that you will be a professional, teachable, and motivated colleague. Although not focused on academia, the archives at Ask A Manager have excellent information on general professional norms in a US context. Some specifics from my process: sending thank you emails after in-person or phone meetings, asking thoughtful questions (i.e. not questions that are answered on the department's website), and being prepared to talk about my professional goals. That last point can feel especially fraught, because everyone knows the miserable state of the job market. But this is the time to talk about why you're doing this and what kind of professional academic historian you're training to be.  

[psstein]

22 hours ago, Balleu said:

3. Choose quality over quantity. Once you have a list of programs you're considering, start narrowing it down. All available evidence says that where you get your PhD matters much more than simply getting one. On the advice of my faculty mentors, I decided at the outset that I would either go to a top-tier school with five guaranteed years of funding or I wouldn't go at all. That meant there were many schools that never made it onto my spreadsheet. For those that did, I emailed potential advisers a version of the following: "I'm a prospective grad student planning to research X. I am contacting you because of your work on X and the department's strengths in Y. Will you be taking on new graduate students in the upcoming year?" Some never wrote back, some responded that their department wouldn't be the right fit for my work and suggested others I should explore, some wrote back enthusiastically and we spoke via email or phone as I was preparing my applications. I applied to 5 programs and in retrospect only 1 or 2 of those were actually solid choices. My rejections make perfect sense in hindsight because my work didn't fit those departments' approach, faculty strengths, etc. There were several places I didn't apply that I should have (some out of oversight, some out of stubbornness about not living in Southern California).

This is an excellent post overall. I'd like to just highlight a little bit about your last sentence. The nature of the job market right now means you should absolutely dictate where you want to go to graduate school and live. That is practically the only choice you'll get about where you live over the next 30+ years, if you manage to win a TT job. The vast majority of faculty in tenured jobs will spend their entire careers at one institution. With department contraction and declining enrollments, there's little incentive to bring in new, more senior faculty, who will demand more pay, when you can just as easily get a Harvard or Yale PhD who's thrilled to have any academic job.

If you don't want to live in Southern CA, you don't have to apply to programs there.

Otherwise, though, I agree with your comments, especially in this point. As I and other posters have said in the past, many sub-fields have no more than 5-8 programs worth attending if you look at outcomes/faculty support/financial support/time to degree.  Anyone even vaguely considering graduate school in history, or the humanities more generally, needs to know those programs for his/her sub-field and then make an advised decision. Choosing not to go to grad school can prove a boon to your future ambitions.

Edited February 2, 2020 by psstein

[Balleu]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:57 PM, psstein said:

This is an excellent post overall. I'd like to just highlight a little bit about your last sentence. The nature of the job market right now means you should absolutely dictate where you want to go to graduate school and live. That is practically the only choice you'll get about where you live over the next 30+ years, if you manage to win a TT job. The vast majority of faculty in tenured jobs will spend their entire careers at one institution. With department contraction and declining enrollments, there's little incentive to bring in new, more senior faculty, who will demand more pay, when you can just as easily get a Harvard or Yale PhD who's thrilled to have any academic job.

If you don't want to live in Southern CA, you don't have to apply to programs there.

Good clarification, thanks for highlighting this question. I did take this approach, deliberately choosing not to apply at programs in areas where I wouldn't want to live and work for 5+ years. Granted, that was also a factor that pushed me to apply to programs that weren't right. If I were going through this process again, my list would look fairly different. 

It's always going to be a challenge to balance the many, many factors in play. Cost of living, for instance. Bigger cities offer myriad cultural and intellectual resources, major airports for easier travel, a better chance that you'll find the cultural/religious/social community that fuels you.... and rents that will make your eyeballs bleed. 

[Sigaba]

For current applicants to graduate programs in history waiting for news and planning their next steps, please consider contributing to this thread.

Please remember that there's likely a difference between reasons why you suspect you were or were not admitted and the reasons why programs did or did not offer admissions. Distinguishing between the two will allow you to gain the maximum opportunities for insight both now and in the years to come. (As an example, I was initially told that I didn't get into Happyland University because of "politics" but over time I came to understand that my book review was not all that it could have been and that I simply did not work hard enough as an undergraduate to develop as full an understanding of historiography as I might have.)

 

[wanlichangcheng]

I'm very thankful for all this advice, but jeez, reading this makes me realize how chaotically underprepared I am/have been, and how unserious my applications must appear. Oh well.