boazczoine Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Seems like we're all getting a little cranky pants. ohhemingway, o.j., strangepeace and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aecp Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) That's pretty cool. [edit: I checked, it's available in quite a lot of countries, but very little information, and no "developed" countries, also it's need and merit based both]. I'm not attacking the USA, by the way, merely stating that international students can be more constrained than their American counterparts when making their decision to apply. aecp, I don't think I learnt anything from "No wonder American foreign policy is so foolish". That's okay. That was not my only comment (so you have others to "learn" from) and there is something to be learned from that comment, but that's okay if you do not see it or agree. I reluctantly entered this debate and it was foolish of me to enter the debate. Edited February 6, 2014 by aecp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Interesting. Most European poli scientists I know basically say they don't predict anymore. Of course, when proposing different policy solutions, you do some predicting in the broader sense, but the predictive power of political science has been discredited a lot in Europe. I actually don't agree with this, because it means that we largely leave it to economists to predict, who usually don't do anything but crunch numbers, which is inherently problematic, IMO. And I am one of those people that believes in the importance of quantitative analyses. I also think that the real world is changing so fast, and if everyone only does what is important at this moment for the real world, we'd be at a complete loss in the future, when things change. So what's irrelevant today might be crazy relevant tomorrow. In addition, many smaller, unrelated things often contribute to new scholarship that might then be important for the "real world". Yes, I think this is one of the big divides in political science on either side of the ocean. I agree with everything you say here. I think you should also consider that most international students don't make/have that kind of money in their home countries. It's an additional burden on them. Assuming that you apply to around 12 schools, that would cost you upwards of $1000. That's more than average monthly income in a lot of countries. So for international students it could be an even more constrained choice problem. You're absolutely correct - and this is important and valuable information, and absolutely worth considering. We do have to be careful not to discount the economic problems of individual students, even those in wealthy countries, and Americans do pay a lot for education. Entirely anecdotal, I went to a small, regional school, and my tuition was about $30,000 a year, and room/board were another $11,000. I was financially independent at 18. I have more in student loan debt - despite considerable scholarships and government aid - than I will make in my first three years as a Ph.D. student. All of my application fees were put on a credit card and I have to pay the minimum monthly (because I get paid based on expected cost of living for my fellowship, I do not have discretionary income). Hello TMCB, I would be happy if you could answer the question you posed below: What is the objective definition of the "real world"? Also, I would also be happy if you could share with me/us what is the purpose of "understanding and predicting" i.e. to what purpose do we "understand and predict" - which is what you say is the mission of the academia and science. Thank you! 1.) The point I was making is that there is none. Poli92 covers this well. 2.) There are a lot of reasons to understand and predict. From a strictly academic point of view, this information is instrinsically valuable. But look no further than your following statement: "It reflects the fundamental misunderstanding of the rest of the world by Americans - and I say this as someone who has spent most of my life in America. No wonder American foreign policy is so foolish." Completely ignoring the very rude, very offensive implications of this statement - why might American foreign policy be so foolish? And with what authority do you say this? And I'm not just asking rhetorically because I think there are very good answers to both of those questions. American foreign policy might be so foolish because it is not based on attempts to understand or predict. You can say it's foolish because observable facts - which can to a certain extent be "tested" and "repeated," though not in the same way as in natural sciences - show us that many choices made in American foreign policy will not yield the preferred or best results. As a political scientist, I'm not interested in influencing these results. I'm interested in understanding them and determining how we might predict - developing models using various methodologies. As a human, as a citizen of a nation-state, etc. of course I'm interested in outcomes, and of course I want to see a better world. But I do not permit my science - which political science is! - to be clouded by emotions or normative goals. There are, of course, times and places for these things, and the best academics do consider them. But if I begin my research with these preconceptions, I'm likely to get a clouded result and it becomes less objective and more subjective. The conclusions are less generalizable, less predictive of future outcomes. Note: I realize that it is impossible to approach any problem or question entirely detached and without any normative considerations. My goal is to try to reduce the impact of these factors. Thank you zudei! In some countries, it is 12 times the monthly minimum wage. 3-5 times the salary of middle level employees. The initial comment and similar comments bother me a lot. It reflects the fundamental misunderstanding of the rest of the world by Americans - and I say this as someone who has spent most of my life in America. No wonder American foreign policy is so foolish. This is unnecessarily offensive and rude. You begin with rather broad assumptions about individuals in a country with a population of over 300 million. Edited February 6, 2014 by TakeMyCoffeeBlack aecp and silver_lining 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhemingway Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I agree that PPP is an issue! But at the same time US Government has a need- (or merit- in less poor countries) based program called "Opportunity Funding" in many developing (probably developed too) countries to support promising students in US Universities admission process (both to undergrad and grad levels). This funding is pretty generous and covers all expenses on application: TOEFL, GRE, sending transcripts, sending scores, application fees. It also covers all possible sort of expenses after you get admitted to a program, but before you start your study there: visa, visiting weeks, tickets, etc. And application for this funding is very similar to standard program application (CV, SOP, Transcripts, etc.), so it does not require anything special. As I understand US citizens do not have such funding opportunity. Are you talking about the Fulbright? If so it is available to US students -- just for their international study (not study in the US). And if you're familiar with the US Fulbright process, it's extremely competitive and only available to a small number of people, which is also how it works for international students (I doubt the US is dishing out money to every other international applicant without putting them through a tough selection process). Also, there are several federal funding opportunities during graduate school (for research etc) that are only available to US citizens. That said (and I'm not an international student), I think this is a silly debate. There are low income students in the US as well for whom spending $1000 - 1500 on applications is a big worry. However, on average, many applicants from developing countries face a considerably higher cost (in terms of what they earn) than the average US applicant. I'm not sure why that's being questioned by political scientists, who should likely know more about the world than the average person. Poli92 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zudei Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 That's okay. That was not my only comment (so you have others to "learn" from) and there is something to be learned from that comment, but that's okay if you do not see it or agree. I reluctantly entered this debate and it was foolish of me to enter the debate. I was just pointing out that you've been a little unfair and quick to judge. In other news, I just realised that a bag of squishy, leaking pears has stained my favourite Linear Algebra textbook I deserve an acceptance notification to make me feel better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 That said (and I'm not an international student), I think this is a silly debate. There are low income students in the US as well for whom spending $1000 - 1500 on applications is a big worry. However, on average, many applicants from developing countries face a considerably higher cost (in terms of what they earn) than the average US applicant. I'm not sure why that's being questioned by political scientists, who should likely know more about the world than the average person. FTW silver_lining and aecp 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I was just pointing out that you've been a little unfair and quick to judge. In other news, I just realised that a bag of squishy, leaking pears has stained my favourite Linear Algebra textbook I deserve an acceptance notification to make me feel better! NOT SQUISHY LEAKING PEARS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofnimbus Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 In other news, I just realised that a bag of squishy, leaking pears has stained my favourite Linear Algebra textbook I deserve an acceptance notification to make me feel better! Squishy leaking pears are the worst! Worth at least one acceptance. (Well, maybe not the worst. That dubious honor is reserved for discovering that the source of the wretched death stank from your cabinet is a single NOW LIQUEFIED potato. Not that I have experience with this. Stank potatoes are worth at least three acceptances.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchermiscount Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Linear Algebra has nothing to do with politics. You should not waste your time on mathematics. RWBG, jeudepaume, zudei and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zudei Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 NOT SQUISHY LEAKING PEARS!!!! I KNOW! Haha! And on top of that I really don't want my office mates to notice the smell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRToni Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Squishy leaking pears are the worst! Worth at least one acceptance. (Well, maybe not the worst. That dubious honor is reserved for discovering that the source of the wretched death stank from your cabinet is a single NOW LIQUEFIED potato. Not that I have experience with this. Stank potatoes are worth at least three acceptances.) I'll just bulletpoint it: India, rat, glue trap, not dead, stone, dead. Nightmares with red eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poli92 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Linear Algebra has nothing to do with politics. You should not waste your time on mathematics. For some reason I read this in Ron Swanson's voice. Targy, ohhemingway and smallworld 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zudei Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Linear Algebra has nothing to do with politics. You should not waste your time on mathematics. But it is a Dover edition Shilov Surely you have some sympathy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofnimbus Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'll just bulletpoint it: India, rat, glue trap, not dead, stone, dead. Nightmares with red eyes! Well, I think we have learned something today, and that is nightmares are contagious. *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchermiscount Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 But it is a Dover edition Shilov Surely you have some sympathy! Here in America, it is easy to afford a replacement of that book. Our purchasing power parity is so good. strangepeace, Zahar Berkut, RWBG and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuejia Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 coachrjc is monarch of nerdy punchlines. Keep em comin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Here in America, it is easy to afford a replacement of that book. Our purchasing power parity is so good. Out of votes, but you're killing it today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zudei Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Here in America, it is easy to afford a replacement of that book. Our purchasing power parity is so good. I cannot upvote anymore. But you dog haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchermiscount Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Perhaps you folks should become more discriminating in choosing which posts to upvote. TorrentOfArdentPathos, ohhemingway, cane14 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Perhaps you folks should become more discriminating in choosing which posts to upvote. You could try to be less clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchermiscount Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 You could try to be less clever. I would fail. RWBG and strangepeace 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poli92 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would fail. Well, I suppose it's important to know your limitations. catchermiscount 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Received an e-mail this morning that I have been "wait-listed" at NYU. Those who have not heard responses may hear today. Good luck everyone! Congrats - and at the same time sorry that it didn't work out right away. But you're doing great so far this cycle! So excited for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahar Berkut Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Received an e-mail this morning that I have been "wait-listed" at NYU. Those who have not heard responses may hear today. Good luck everyone! I truly wish you luck with the wait-list. Remember, people DO consistently get accepted from them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aecp Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Received an e-mail this morning that I have been "wait-listed" at NYU. Those who have not heard responses may hear today. Good luck everyone! Progress! Congrats! One more step to admission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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